SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Ofir_A — Tue, 26 Sep 2023 06:40:06 GMT

Ok I will check it

Thanks

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Achim Kraus — Tue, 26 Sep 2023 06:37:24 GMT

If you close the socket/connection, it was working on my nRF9160, HW: B1A, MFW: 1.3.5, NCS 2.4.2.

I don't use the SLM app nor the XNRFCLOUD command. So I don't know, if that works there.

Just to mention, my experience is still: AS-RAI is only rarely supported by the network operators. Therefore the idea to test it with the UDP demo isn't that bad. It may save a lot of time, if it isn't supported.

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Ofir_A — Tue, 26 Sep 2023 06:30:16 GMT

Thanks for the info Achim,

I will check it later this week hopefully it will work

So you say I don't need to do setsockopt?

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Achim Kraus — Fri, 22 Sep 2023 14:16:53 GMT

mfw 1.3.5, NCS 2.4.2

Doing some comparison tests with TCP and UDP, I stumbled over a nice update to TCP/AS-RAI.

If you enable AS-RAI (AT%REL14FEAT=0,1,0,0,0 + AT%RAI=1) closing the TCP socket seems to already trigger SO_RAI_NO_DATA. In networks with AS-RAI my modem gets idle in 2-3s after closing. In networks without AS-RAI it takes about 10-12s (that depends on the network setting of the provider).

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Achim Kraus — Wed, 13 Sep 2023 08:28:03 GMT

My understanding of that code is limited, but it seems, that connecting with XNRFCLOUD create a socket, which is then not accessible by AT#XSOCKETOPT.

So, let me try to sum up my experience with AS-RAI:

- AS-RAI is for no only rarely supported by the networks.

- Due to the API from Nordic it's not easy to see, if your network supports it. It's also not easy to see, if something is done wrong, which prevents AS-RAI from working.

There two things you may do:

- check, if AS-RAI is supported by your network. One way would be to use the UDP example, even if that doesn't help in the end. If you device fails to use AS-RAI with that example in your network, then I guess, you don't need to spend more time for now.

- ask more specific, how that SLM application is intended to support AS-RAI.

I guess, the complete mess around AS-RAI may be much larger than common users would expect. I would not be too surprised, if the current implementation is much behind the plans and works only in a very few special cases. But not in general, not for all apps and not for TCP.

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Ofir_A — Wed, 13 Sep 2023 08:05:10 GMT

Thanks Achim

I've tried to use it when the connection is open after I exit data mode and before closing the connection and still ERROR.

Also after exiting data mode and closing connection there is still ERROR

The command AT#XSOCKETOPT=1,50 doesn't seems to work

[13/9 10:56:06:083] AT+CEREG=5
[13/9 10:56:06:814] OK
[13/9 10:56:08:973] AT+CPSMS=1,"","","10100001","00001010"
[13/9 10:56:09:858] OK
[13/9 10:56:11:033] AT+CSCON=3
[13/9 10:56:11:383] OK
[13/9 10:56:13:023] AT%REL14FEAT=0,1,0,0,0
[13/9 10:56:15:598] AT%RAI=1
[13/9 10:56:15:947] OK
[13/9 10:56:28:472] AT+CFUN=1
[13/9 10:56:29:647] OK
[13/9 10:56:31:167] +CEREG: 2,"198D","00048801",7
[13/9 10:56:31:167] +CSCON: 1,7,4
[13/9 10:56:31:172] +CEREG: 5,"198D","00048801",7,,,"00001010","11100000"
[13/9 10:56:36:177] AT#XMQTTCON=1,"..","","","..",8883,321
[13/9 10:56:40:297] OK
[13/9 10:56:40:297] #XMQTTEVT: 0,0
[13/9 10:56:43:841] AT#XMQTTPUB="..","",1
[13/9 10:56:44:861] OK
[13/9 10:56:50:381] test
[13/9 10:56:50:951] #XMQTTEVT: 3,0
[13/9 10:56:52:056] test
[13/9 10:56:53:996] #XMQTTEVT: 3,0
[13/9 10:56:58:908] +++
[13/9 10:57:00:081] #XDATAMODE: 0
[13/9 10:57:01:857] AT#XSOCKETOPT=1,50
[13/9 10:57:03:125] ERROR
[13/9 10:57:05:225] AT#XMQTTCON=0
[13/9 10:57:06:171] #XMQTTEVT: 1,0
[13/9 10:57:06:171] OK
[13/9 10:57:07:590] AT#XSOCKETOPT=1,50
[13/9 10:57:07:765] ERROR
[13/9 10:57:11:592] AT#XSLEEP=2
[13/9 10:57:12:256] OK
[13/9 10:57:14:607] low_power

Still takes 16-60 seconds to get RRC idle

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Achim Kraus — Thu, 07 Sep 2023 12:38:41 GMT

I still consider, that AS-RAI requires much more user documentation. I don't know, why Nordic invest in advertisement for a feature, but then leaves the user without adequate documentation.

The log above shows me, that at least this user is suffering from the missing documentation.

AS-RAI in difference to CP-RAI is not something, which is configured completely ahead. In CP-RAI it's possible to enable "ONE-RESP" once and this gets then used until the configuration is changed. That's all done with %XRAI.

AS-RAI is different. It must be general enabled (using REL14FEAT and RAI), but then afterwards the application provides frequently the "LAST" or "NO DATA" via a socket option. For that socket you need to first establish the "connection". One downside I found is, that if the HTTP server already closes the connection, no AS-RAI option can be set. If you have a connection, then using the option should work.

I don't know, if XNRFCLOUD uses an socket, which is then accessible by the XSOCKETOPT cmd. If not, I guess, XNRFCLOUD doesn't support AS-RAI.

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Ofir_A — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 14:39:43 GMT

Hi Øyvind,

Sorry it took time

I really tried to do all we can to get modem trace but it is not possible

The most I can give you is this:

[5/9 17:21:17:730] Ready
[5/9 17:21:19:095] [00:00:00.503,143] [0m<inf> nrf_modem_lib_trace: Trace thread ready[0m
[5/9 17:21:19:100] [00:00:00.504,699] [0m<inf> nrf_modem_lib_trace: Trace level override: 2[0m
[5/9 17:21:19:104] [00:00:00.504,730] [0m<inf> slm: Serial LTE Modem[0m
[5/9 17:21:19:110] [00:00:00.504,760] [0m<inf> slm_at_host: UART2 baud: 115200 d/p/s-bits: 3/0/1 HWFC: 1[0m
[5/9 17:21:19:119] [00:00:00.607,116] [0m<inf> slm_at_host: at_host init done[0m
[5/9 17:21:41:828] AT%REL14FEAT=0,1,0,0,0
[5/9 17:21:41:937] OK
[5/9 17:21:46:168] AT%RAI=1
[5/9 17:21:46:479] OK
[5/9 17:21:49:860] AT+CEREG=5
[5/9 17:21:51:043] OK
[5/9 17:21:55:948] AT%XBANDLOCK=2,"100"
[5/9 17:21:57:128] OK
[5/9 17:22:00:124] AT+CSCON=3
5/9 17:22:00:167] OK
[5/9 17:22:03:717] AT+CPSMS=1,"","","10100001","00001010"
[5/9 17:22:04:733] OK
[5/9 17:22:08:727] AT+CFUN=1
[5/9 17:22:09:298] OK
[5/9 17:22:10:818] +CEREG: 2,"198D","00048801",7
[5/9 17:22:10:822] +CSCON: 1,7,4
[5/9 17:22:12:342] +CEREG: 5,"198D","00048801",7,,,"00001010","11100000"
[5/9 17:22:13:992] AT#XSOCKETOPT=1,50
[5/9 17:22:15:382] ERROR
[5/9 17:22:15:382] [00:00:56.883,544] [1;31m<err> slm_sock: setsockopt(50) error: -9[0m
[5/9 17:22:21:079] AT%RAI=1
[5/9 17:22:21:467] OK
[5/9 17:22:24:486] AT#XSOCKETOPT=1,50
5/9 17:22:24:512] ERROR
[5/9 17:22:26:032] [00:01:07.378,509] [1;31m<err> slm_sock: setsockopt(50) error: -9[0m
[[5/9 17:22:27:552] +CSCON: 0,7,4
[5/9 17:31:45:717] AT+CEREG?
[5/9 17:31:45:908] +CEREG: 5,5,"198D","00048801",7,,,"00001010","11100000"
[5/9 17:31:45:912] OK
[5/9 17:31:48:583] AT+CFUN?
[5/9 17:31:48:952] +CFUN: 1
[5/9 17:31:48:952] OK
[5/9 17:32:02:597] AT#XNRFCLOUD=1
[5/9 17:32:04:167] OK
[5/9 17:32:04:167] +CSCON: 1,7,4
[5/9 17:32:06:951] AT#XSOCKETOPT=1,50
[5/9 17:32:07:212] ERROR
[5/9 17:32:07:212] [00:10:48.968,719] [0m<inf> slm_gnss: NRF_CLOUD_EVT_TRANSPORT_CONNECTED[0m
[5/9 17:32:07:216] [00:10:49.862,243] [1;31m<err> slm_sock: setsockopt(50) error: -9[0m
[5/9 17:32:08:731] #XNRFCLOUD: 1,0
[5/9 17:32:08:736] [00:10:50.305,175] [0m<inf> slm_gnss: NRF_CLOUD_EVT_READY[0m
[5/9 17:32:16:086] AT#XSOCKETOPT=1,50
[5/9 17:32:16:342] ERROR
[5/9 17:32:17:862] [00:10:58.997,436] [1;31m<err> slm_sock: setsockopt(50) error: -9[0m
5/9 17:32:25:471] +CSCON: 0,7,4
[5/9 17:32:26:152] AT+CFUN=0
[5/9 17:32:26:992] #XNRFCLOUD: 0,0
[5/9 17:32:28:516] [00:11:09.165,100] [0m<inf> slm_gnss: NRF_CLOUD_EVT_TRANSPORT_DISCONNECTED: status 3[0m
[5/9 17:32:28:521] OK
[5/9 17:32:28:521] +CSCON: 1,7,4
[5/9 17:32:28:525] +CEREG: 0
[5/9 17:32:28:525] +CSCON: 0,7,4

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Achim Kraus — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 15:11:53 GMT

> In this case I'm not asking for which is supported but rather if RAI is supported in the network.

There is no big difference to report "AS-RAI:" => "supported" / "not supported" by the network, or "AS-RAI", CP-RAI" and "No-RAI" supported by the network. But the later will help all.

And for now, nothing is reported, because someone decided "customers do not need to". But the customers here in the forum seems to need it ;-).

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Øyvind — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 13:26:36 GMT

Achim Kraus yes, you have been discussing this topic for a while and we understand that you are not happy in how we handle certain aspects of our features and documents. In this case I'm not asking for which is supported but rather if RAI is supported in the network. For the case of our users we hope that our documentation is relevant and updated for their use-case, and we constantly providing feedback to our R&D department for improvements and bug fixes.

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Achim Kraus — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 12:13:33 GMT

> It's a little problematic with our product to get modem trace

> Yes, that is true.

Our customers do not need to know which RAI is supported

I guess, this is simply an wrong assumption by Nordic. Not only here or in the referenced topic, the question is frequently, if AS-RAI or CP-RAI is supported by the network.

Instead of asking for traces, wouldn't it be ways easier to report that to the user's application?

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Achim Kraus — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 12:01:51 GMT

> we don't know how and where to add the socket so I can inform it is the last message.

If you use the "serial_lte_modem" that app maintains the socket for you.

With "AT#XSOCKETOPT" (see the documentation there) you should the be able to "set SO_RAI_LAST" or "set SO_RAI_NO_DATA".

> We do send sleep=2 when we finished so I want it to send the RAI too.

Enter "sleep=2" is not related to RAI and so that doesn't set the socket opt for you.

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Øyvind — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 11:59:23 GMT

Yes, that is true. Hope that you are able to get one in an easy manner. You could also the sample that I suggested with the nRF9160DK, this should at least provide information on the network when using the same SIM card.

-Øyvind

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Ofir_A — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 10:22:24 GMT

[quote userid="77062" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/103144/slm-2-4-0-rai/443874"]Please provide a modem trace for our modem team to look at. [/quote]

It's a little problematic with our product to get modem trace
will check something with the SW engineer and let you know on sunday

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Øyvind — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 10:18:38 GMT

[quote user="Ofir_A"]It is not relevant, we use TCP[/quote]

The test would possibly confirm that you are able to enable RAI on your device i.e. that the network does allow RAI.

[quote user="Ofir_A"]I've already tried this with no effect[/quote]

Please provide a modem trace for our modem team to look at.

Thank you.

Kind regards,
Øyvind

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Ofir_A — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 10:15:38 GMT

[quote userid="77062" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/103144/slm-2-4-0-rai/443161"]

When we are talking about RAI we are referring to the release 14 feature (enabled by %RAI)

You should be able to use AT command Release assistance indication %RAI to enable RAI on your device

[/quote]

I've already tried this with no effect

we don't know how and where to add the socket so I can inform it is the last message.

We do send sleep=2 when we finished so I want it to send the RAI too.

[quote userid="77062" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/103144/slm-2-4-0-rai/443161"]And you can test this with a simple sample that my colleague Charlie made here.[/quote]

It is not relevant, we use TCP

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Achim Kraus — Sat, 26 Aug 2023 15:57:10 GMT

> We connect with MQTT (LTE-M)

Using TCP makes it hard to use RAI successful. The last application message may not be the last message being transmitted with a radio message and so that doesn't match RAI.

> No, there is no good walk-through,

Even that link "Maximizing battery " just shows the different resulting charts, not how to achieve them.

%XRAI = "CP-RAI" (only for NB-IoT, but not a really useful feature in practice)
%RAI = "AS-RAI" (Release 14 feature, saves a lot of power consumption by skipping the rrc inactivity timer)

My experience is exactly the opposite! If you use NB-IoT, CP-RAI works pretty good, and the API is well defined. It's very useful in combination with CoAP/DTLS 1.2 CID and is one of the ways, to operate a device for months. On interest, see zephyr-coaps-client . Sure, if you use LTE-M, that doesn't help. And if you use TCP, it also doesn't work.

If you try AS-RAI, you need first to check your networks, if AS-RAI is supported. Unfortunately, Nordic decided, that there is no API to check, if AS-RAI is supported by the network. What you get is something as "implicitly used CP-RAI", if AS-RAI is missing but requested and CP-RAI is available. Then you need to check, which RAI mode (CP and AS) supports which Options. Again remember, you don't know, if it's AS-RAI or CP-RAI. You will find Options working for both, options working only for CP-RAI networks and options working only for AS-RAI.

You're mixed up? Welcome. Read the full story here . (Just to mention, the zephyr-coaps-client implemented RAI support, that works with both CP-RAI and AS-RAI, but it's not too easy.)

Using RAI for TCP is then additionally not easy. RAI is related to data-radio-messages, but for TCP, that doesn't fit your application messages. When will you tell the modem, that this is the last data-radio-message, or that you're ready? And what happens, if TCP injects some additional messages?

So let me recommend:

- if you want to stick to TCP, then use larger batteries and accept shorter runtime.

- if you need longer runtime, then use UDP.

Or, follow the recommendation to collect data and send that once a day. Even if that doesn't help, if you need to check your system health more frequently.

RE: SLM 2.4.0 + RAI

Øyvind — Fri, 25 Aug 2023 12:11:31 GMT

Hello!

[quote user=""]I've read some tickets regarding it but still no walkthrough.[/quote]

No, there is no good walk-through, there is this blog post on DevZone Maximizing battery lifetime in cellular IoT: An analysis of eDRX, PSM, and AS-RAI .

[quote user=""]We want to know how to add the RAI (in code or AT commands) that immediate after Sleep=2 the modem will go idle [/quote]

There are two possible ways to enable RAI:

%XRAI = "CP-RAI" (only for NB-IoT, but not a really useful feature in practice)
%RAI = "AS-RAI" (Release 14 feature, saves a lot of power consumption by skipping the rrc inactivity timer)

When we are talking about RAI we are referring to the release 14 feature (enabled by %RAI)

You should be able to use AT command Release assistance indication %RAI to enable RAI on your device. And you can test this with a simple sample that my colleague Charlie made here.

Let me know how that works for you.

Kind regards,
Øyvind