Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

blue_dew — Wed, 16 Apr 2025 05:03:18 GMT

Thank you so much!!! I feel so silly for not remembering that from the guide but I'm so happy to see the sample functional without the use of external flash memory. Y'all are the best.

Before I close out the issue, I'm going to verify functionality within my application. I'm thrilled, though!!!

Regards,
Brady

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

Sigurd Hellesvik — Tue, 15 Apr 2025 05:48:37 GMT

Try follow steps explained in https://academy.nordicsemi.com/simultaneous-updates-for-both-cores-of-the-nrf5340/, where you upload dfu_application.zip instead.

If you were to use single files: zephyr.signed.bin for app core and signed_by_mcuboot_and_b0_ipc_radio.bin. However, this should go to "image slot 1", in difference of the normal appcore.

[quote user="blue_dew"]or some more context, I'm modifying the ipc_radio application within the directory: "C:\ncs\v3.0.0-rc1\nrf\applications\ipc_radio".[/quote]

Yes, this is good.

[quote user="blue_dew"]No matter if I use external flash or not I get the "Failed to open flash area ID 1: -1" message which I believe is the network core flash.[/quote]

The nRF5340 DFU procedure uses two slots:

1. mcuboot_secondary_1. This is a slot in app flash for storing the update candidate for the netcore.

2.mcuboot_primary_1: This is a slot in app RAM used to simulate the netcore flash, for when we will transfer it.

For mcuboot_primary_1, reading this simulated flash can fail, which can cause the error message you see without being an issue in itself.

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

blue_dew — Tue, 15 Apr 2025 00:44:36 GMT

Hey Sigurd,

Thank you so much for the help!!! The example builds for the secure version of the nrf5340dk but it doesn't actually allow for updates of the network core regardless of external flash use. I have tried every bin file I can find within my build folder and I'm having no luck. I am pretty sure the correct bin file is the "zephyr.signed.bin" file but maybe I'm mistaken. The example updates the app core as expected but not the network core :(

Here is what my build config looks like now:

This is a list of all the bin files created by the build:

Here is the error I get after updating over the air:

No matter if I use external flash or not I get the "Failed to open flash area ID 1: -1" message which I believe is the network core flash. I really appreciate your time and effort. Thank you so much Sigurd.

Regards,
Brady

For some more context, I'm modifying the ipc_radio application within the directory: "C:\ncs\v3.0.0-rc1\nrf\applications\ipc_radio". I know this is correct because when I manually flash the changes the network core logs update as expected but when I try to use the DFU feature from my mobile application I don't see the changes I expect to my logs on the network core and instead see the error posted above. Here is an example of the logs updated on the net core after manually flashing:

Except it doesn't work :(

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

Sigurd Hellesvik — Mon, 14 Apr 2025 07:36:01 GMT

Just what you did, but for the nRF5340dk/nrf5340/cpuapp.

Can you try to build for the DK instead, just to see if there is a difference?

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

blue_dew — Thu, 10 Apr 2025 22:42:05 GMT

Hello Sigurd,

Thank you for your time. I have tried building the sample you linked using the tag v3.0.0-rc1 and I am having no luck. Can you please share the build command you used? Here is what my build looks like:

Maybe I need a different toolchain too not just SDK? Here is my build log:

devzone.nordicsemi.com/.../2604.build.log

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

Sigurd Hellesvik — Thu, 10 Apr 2025 12:55:49 GMT

Hi,

I will continue to help with this ticket.

I do not know if you have updated to the nRF Connect SDK v3.0.0 yet. But even so, try this on the git tag v3.0.0-rc1 in order to test the following:

Try the sample l9_e5_nrf5340_both_sol from DevAcademy on DFU in v3.0.0-rc1. I based this academy sample on the Peripheral_lbs sample.

In v3.0.0-rc1 you should be able to just change SB_CONFIG_PM_EXTERNAL_FLASH_MCUBOOT_SECONDARY to "n" in this sample, and simultaneous DFU should work for internal flash

Let me know how this goes

Regards,
Sigurd Hellesvik

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

blue_dew — Mon, 07 Apr 2025 23:52:07 GMT

Hey Menon,

I'm really looking forward to this example! Thank you so much for helping me.

Respectfully,
Brady

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

Menon — Tue, 01 Apr 2025 09:57:41 GMT

Hello,

I’m currently working on the peripheral_lbs sample to enable simultaneous DFU without external flash. However, I will be away after tomorrow, so I’m not sure if I’ll be able to provide you with the required updates before then.

In the meantime, you can refer to the following PR for guidance: https://github.com/nrfconnect/sdk-mcuboot/pull/397.
I recommend cherry-picking the relevant commit. Otherwise, you’ll need to manually create a PM static file.

Kind Regards,

Abhijith

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

blue_dew — Mon, 24 Mar 2025 23:45:27 GMT

Hey Menon,

Thank you for the insight. If you can't help me fix my custom application, maybe we could start with the sample listed on github for the intermediate developer academy lesson regarding simultaneous DFU on the nrf5340dk:
https://github.com/NordicDeveloperAcademy/ncs-inter/tree/main/v2.9.0-v2.7.0/l9/l9_e5_nrf5340_both_sol

I am doing my best to follow the instructions in the read-me that state, "You can build the sample with a minimum configuration as a demonstration of how to reduce code size and RAM usage using the DFILE_SUFFIX=minimal flag in your build." So I created the following build config within the nrf Connect extension on vs code:

Unfortunately, I get the following errors:
devzone.nordicsemi.com/.../1754.build.log

If I don't utilize the additional CMAKE option as stated in the readme I obviously get the RAM overflow issue that this option is meant to avoid. I really appreciate your patience with me but I hope you can see why I'm having so much trouble. Here is the ram overflow issue that comes without the cmake option set:
devzone.nordicsemi.com/.../no_5F00_cmake_5F00_option_5F00_build.log

Respectfully,
Brady Adcock

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

Menon — Mon, 24 Mar 2025 14:09:41 GMT

Hello,

I was looking at the shared logs and sample. I am not sure why it is throwing a warning regarding NETCORE_APP_UPDATE, but the sample is not crashing because of this warning. The error indicates an issue with conflicting memory allocation for rpmsg_nrf53_sram.

I looked into the generated partition manager file inside the build folder and the overlay file you created. Your .overlay file defines the starting address as 0x20070000, but pm.yml assigns 0x20070840 instead.

Kind regards,
Abhijith

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

blue_dew — Tue, 18 Mar 2025 19:56:51 GMT

Hey Menon, thank you for the quick reply and for pointing out that, obviously, I need BLE enabled for the SMP service to be advertised and connected to, so I went ahead and uploaded my custom net core image that handles the IPC communication as well as my synch protocol to the example repo. I had a brain fart because we are not even getting to that part of the build process, unfortunately. I updated main with the changes, and if you remove the sys build configs for simultaneous dfu you'll see that ble works as expected:

But when I enable all of the configs from the lessons regarding simultaneous dfu we don't get very far into the build at all because we see the exact same original error from before regarding the flash memory config that I've posted a few times now.

devzone.nordicsemi.com/.../6201.build.log

This is clearly because my current cmake sysbuild config doesn't enable the network core config "NETCORE_NONE" = n and its not clear how I'm supposed to do that. Obviously by using your prebuilt ipc image that config is getting set but I'm not sure how.

Here is the updated code if you prefer a zip instead of github:
devzone.nordicsemi.com/.../3630.sim_5F00_dfu.zip

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

Menon — Tue, 18 Mar 2025 18:30:11 GMT

Hello,

I will look more into the application you have shared, but let's clarify a few things first. Are you trying to implement DFU over BLE? The guide you pointed to covers that. In that case, I don't see any configuration enabling BLE inside your sample.
I am not sure, but could it be because the network core image is not mentioned inside the Kconfig.sysbuild file? Please refer to this chapter of the course.

Kind regards,
Abhijith

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

blue_dew — Mon, 17 Mar 2025 14:21:23 GMT

Hello Menon,

"I reviewed the partition manager file you shared, and your sram_primary partition is defined twice, which will create a conflict"

I have only defined it one time within the pm_static.yml file I sent you (line 97). Maybe I'm misunderstanding where other partitions come from. I have looked at other example pm_static.yml file's from the previously linked related issues and they also define is just once within their pm_static.yml file so I would appreciate additional clarity.

---

I have also gone ahead and made that blinky sample to recreate the issue in the simplest way possible:

repo link:
https://github.com/Brady-Adcock/sim_dfu

devzone.nordicsemi.com/.../sim_5F00_dfu.zip

I tried to follow the following dev zone academy to the best of my ability but I'm still struggling:
https://academy.nordicsemi.com/simultaneous-updates-for-both-cores-of-the-nrf5340/

Here is my build output:

devzone.nordicsemi.com/.../8484.build.log

I'm not sure why I'm getting the:

If you could help me solve this simple build I'm certain I can fix my main appliaction build myself. I wanted to first see the external flash working which I can't even get right and THEN try to remove the external flash partitions and maangmenet within this repo to utilize just the flash on board. This build is 100% small enough.

Thank you so much for your time and help Menon.

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

Menon — Thu, 13 Mar 2025 07:44:35 GMT

Hello,

From the logs, the issue lies within the partition manager. I reviewed the partition manager file you shared, and your sram_primary partition is defined twice, which will create a conflict. Additionally, mcuboot_primary_1 and mcuboot_secondary_1 are missing, these need to be defined for the network core image. See here for reference.

I don't have a simple sample for a simultaneous update using Sysbuild, and I might need some time to prepare one as this is a busy week for me. If you are struggling with building a simple sample(Hello_world), please share the details, and I will look into it. I will try to make it work.

[quote user=""]Do I need to setup a pm_static.yaml file for my custom netcore image too?[/quote]

No, the network core image is typically handled within the same partition manager file as the app core.

[quote user=""]nd I see the note regarding the placement of mcuboot_primary_1 inside of ram_flash region but I don't understand the second comment about "CONFIG_FLASH_SIMULATOR" within the docs.[/quote]

As the documentation states, the app core cannot directly access the network core’s flash. It must store the network firmware update in RAM and then pass it to the network core for flashing. Enabling this configuration allows part of the RAM to act as a flash storage area so that MCUBoot can temporarily hold the network firmware update before writing it to the actual network core flash.

Kind Regards,

Abhijith

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

blue_dew — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 23:32:12 GMT

devzone.nordicsemi.com/.../2744.build.log

Above is the output from the full build. I am now trying to put together a small hello world program for us to both work from utilizing the nrf5340dk rather than my custom board configurations. This example program will still require a partition for shared memory for a custom protocol in additional to the normal bt hci ipc memory.

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

Menon — Fri, 07 Mar 2025 15:10:34 GMT

Hello,

I am looking into this issue, can you share the whole logs(instead of screenshot) here as it will be more easy to go though. Use the insert tab to paste it.

Kind Regards,

Abhijith

RE: Simultaneous DFU on nrf5340 and NCS 2.9.0 without external flash

blue_dew — Fri, 07 Mar 2025 02:49:34 GMT

I know my current pm_static.yaml file is wrong but I'm wondering if the problem is related to using a fully custom board rather than the dev kit because when I try to enable CONFIG_FLASH_SIMULATOR I get "check these unsatisfied dependencies DT_HAS_ZEPHYR_SIM_FLASH_ENABLED (=n)" and I definitely don't have any compatible node in my device tree service for either my ns or secure board files for the "zephr,sim-flash". I'm kinda curious if I need to modify the mcuboot directory and add an overlay specifically for my custom board or update my current shared memory overlay file from above... Thank you again for all of your help.