extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

Automotriz_bgn — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 16:56:33 GMT

yes i think that add a usb port is something unnecessary but an order is an order, thanks for your answers and your time, has been really useful for me

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

Automotriz_bgn — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 16:54:12 GMT

thanks, i added a bridge to my board to use usb port, and i'm developing my fw using the development kit

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

awneil — Tue, 05 Mar 2019 10:57:25 GMT

[quote userid="77685" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/44266/extra-hardware-needed-to-debugging-nrf52832-through-usb/174097"]to debug my board the only way is through the SWD pins[/quote]

Well, it's not the only way. As already mentioned, you can also use old-school (sic) things like printf, toggling output pins, flashing LEDs, oscilloscopes, logic analysers etc.

But using SWD will give you a far better view of what is happening internally within the chip - without having to write specific debug code.

Having said all that, the "old school" methods are still valid and useful and have their place - and, in some cases, can actually be more useful.

But to not use the SWD on a chip which has it really is folly !

You really need to learn all these tools & techniques.

[quote userid="77685" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/44266/extra-hardware-needed-to-debugging-nrf52832-through-usb/174097"]my boss insisted on being able to upload code via usb[/quote]

Why? once you have the SWD access in place, it's easier to update via the SWD than to provide yet another connection via UART!

As Einar Thorsrud said, "When you are developing you anyway need a debugger to debug, so you probably want to use that for programming as well"

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

Einar Thorsrud — Tue, 05 Mar 2019 07:45:28 GMT

Yes, this is correct. But please note that you cannot upload code via USB directly, even with a bootloader, as there i no USB support on the nRF52832. You can use a USB-UART bridge though and use a serial bootloader. However, as awneil has explained, this mostly useful in the end product. When you are developing you anyway need a debugger to debug, so you probably want to use that for programming as well.

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

Automotriz_bgn — Mon, 04 Mar 2019 21:01:38 GMT

OK, so to debug my board the only way is through the SWD pins using a j-link or something similar, and to upload code via USB once i have installed a bootloader i need a USB / serial (UART) chip and connect it to any pin previously specified by FW, right? I know that this is may be redundant since i can upload code over the air but my boss insisted on being able to upload code via usb .

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

awneil — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 11:34:42 GMT

Not all other vendors: Atmel don't, and ST have only recently done it (by acquiring Atollic).

It is still a significant investment - I don't think Nordic is on the scale of those others?

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

Nguyen Hoan Hoang — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 03:22:40 GMT

Ah! There you go, why wouldn't Nordic provides support for it like all other vendors? It's totally free no string attached. Anyway it is very easy now to install and use Eclipse compares to 10 years ago. All the tools have installer now. Executing the installer isn't that hard. To get Eclipse cross dev for ARM is also a lot easier too. Just go to Marketplace from the 'Help' menu. Search for ARM then click install the GNU ARM plugin, et voila. Simple as 1-2-3. So what's all that fuss about?

What was the compiler tools that come with SES already? Oh yeah, it's an old version of GCC! I think it was 2 or 3 versions behind.

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

awneil — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 22:41:49 GMT

[quote userid="77685" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/44266/extra-hardware-needed-to-debugging-nrf52832-through-usb"]i know that i must upload a custom bootloader if i want to debug my device through USB or UART[/quote]

Actually, a bootloader just allows you to load code - it does not give you any debug facilities at all.

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

awneil — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 22:39:07 GMT

[quote userid="75667" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/44266/extra-hardware-needed-to-debugging-nrf52832-through-usb/173788"]The debugger is immensely useful when writing your own software for the MCU[/quote]

Absolutely!

To call it "indispensable" would only be a slight exaggeration!

I would still suggest that setting up your own Eclipse IDE from scratch is not a beginner's task - far better to start with a ready-to-use, supported toolset.

But each to his own.

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

wpaul — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 22:18:09 GMT

When you have an nRF52 chip that is brand new, its flash will be completely blank. This means it won't have a pre-existing boot loader in it. When you power it up, it'll just sit there unable to do anything. So yes: for a blank chip, the only way to program the flash is using an external SWD debug tool. Once you have programmed it the first time with an image which is able to perform firmware updates on its own, then you can load new code using that mechanism instead.

That said:

- If your application code wipes or corrupts the flash, you'll need the debug tool to recover it.

- The debugger is immensely useful when writing your own software for the MCU. You can use it to examine the CPU state and memory and step through your code line by line (or instruction by instruction) to see what it's doing.

Without the debugger you'd have to rely on adding lots of printf()s to your code, which can be effective but it's slow going.

BTW, my preference is to use an completely open source toolchain, including the latest versions of GCC, binutils, GDB, newlib and OpenOCD. You can compile these from the original GNU sources. For the most part, the trick is to configure them using --target=arm-none-eabi.

Also, there is a free ARM IDE which should work with the nRF52 chip:

https://gnu-mcu-eclipse.github.io/

You will want to download the GNU MCU ARM GCC toolchain, which includes binaries of GCC, GDB and binutils. (There's versions for Linux, Windows and MacOS.) You will also want the GNU MCU OpenOCD installation. OpenOCD is what talks to the SWD debug tool and provides support for GDB (or Eclipse) to debug the board.

-Bill

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

awneil — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 21:59:48 GMT

[quote userid="3482" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/44266/extra-hardware-needed-to-debugging-nrf52832-through-usb/173785"]None of them provides you SES[/quote]

But what they do is provide you with a configured and ready-to-go IDE (based on Eclipse).

And none of those vendor-customised IDEs is going to work well with other vendors chips.

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

Nguyen Hoan Hoang — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 21:05:15 GMT

[quote userid="6462" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/44266/extra-hardware-needed-to-debugging-nrf52832-through-usb/173738"]The OP is clearly a beginner, so it will be much easier for her/him to get started with a supported IDE [/quote]

Being a beginner is not an excuse. Whether you're beginner or not, there is always a leaning curve in any environment. SES or Eclipse, both use the same tool same compiler. Search the forum and see how many people having issues when they move beyond the example and start working on their own projects. It is not any harder using Eclipse now a days. It is just a mater of tastes. If you are an embedded software engineer and wants to make a career out of it, you are likely to need to work with other MCU vendors such as TI, NXP, Freescale (NXP), ST (STM32)... Guess what all those vendors also provide you with free IDE. OMG they are all Eclipse! Unless you are a Nordic only developper, you are likely to have to learn to use Eclipse anyway. None of them provides you SES.

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

Automotriz_bgn — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 18:34:02 GMT

ok thanks for clarify my doubt, i was pretty confused about that. So for the first FW upload i must do it over SWD interface and i can use DFU over the air for update FW right?

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

Automotriz_bgn — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 18:31:39 GMT

Thanks for the information, I did not know about those IDEs, just segger, I will take them into account

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

awneil — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 14:30:22 GMT

[quote userid="7377" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/44266/extra-hardware-needed-to-debugging-nrf52832-through-usb/173731"]importantly: most guides and documentation nRF5 devices assumes you use SES or Keil[/quote]

I think that really is the key point point here.

The OP is clearly a beginner, so it will be much easier for her/him to get started with a supported IDE rather also trying to get to grips with an unsupported IDE - especially Eclipse.

[quote userid="7377" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/44266/extra-hardware-needed-to-debugging-nrf52832-through-usb/173731"]If you use Eclipse you will have a bigger job of configuring the tools[/quote]

Configuring Eclipse is a non-trivial task for an experienced developer - it really isn't something for a beginner.

[quote userid="7377" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/44266/extra-hardware-needed-to-debugging-nrf52832-through-usb/173731"]and you will get less help if you struggle[/quote]

indeed - especially with the "special" features of the nRF chips

[quote userid="7377" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/44266/extra-hardware-needed-to-debugging-nrf52832-through-usb/173731"]This is OK for an experienced guy like yourself, but in my experience it is not so good for beginners[/quote]

Absolutely.

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

Einar Thorsrud — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 14:10:15 GMT

I have no problem understanding that you might want to use another tool than SES for those or other reasons. This is a bit off topic, but I wanted to comment on this as I have a distinct feeling that most users find SES easier to use than Eclipse, and also most users care more about actual monetary cost than mor philosophical aspects of free software. And also importantly: most guides and documentation nRF5 devices assumes you use SES or Keil. If you use Eclipse you will have a bigger job of configuring the tools, and you will get less help if you struggle. This is OK for an experienced guy like yourself, but in my experience it is not so good for beginners.

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

Nguyen Hoan Hoang — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 13:49:20 GMT

I am also somewhat disagree with your statement as well. SES is not 100% free. It is free to use only & only with with nRF and jlink. Not free otherwise. 100% free means not locked in to any thing. Lifetime free upgrade et al... I can use it on any processor any jtag.

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

Einar Thorsrud — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 13:16:11 GMT

Hi,

The nRF52 DK comes with an onboard SWD debugger (J-Link), so I recommend you go with that. This debugger can also be used to debug other boards via the Debug out connector. The USB connector on the DK is connected to the onboard debugger, which in turn is connected to the SWD pins on the nRF52832. (The nRF52832 does not have a USB interface, so there is no way to do DFU over USB. You consider the nRF52840 instead.)

You may also find the SDK Getting started guide useful.

I somewhat disagree with the previous answer when it comes to development environment. In my option, the easiest way to get started with nRF development is using Segger Embedded Studio, which is a fully featured integrated IDE which can be used free of charge for any project where the target device is a Nordic product.

RE: extra Hardware needed to debugging nRF52832 through USB ?

Nguyen Hoan Hoang — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 04:52:47 GMT

To work with the nRF you need a SWD debug jtag such as this IDAP-Link. It allows you to both flash the firmware and debug your code. Depending on the IDE you plan to use, it could be natively supported or through OpenOCD. My preferred IDE is Eclipse & GCC which is 100% free. You can follow this blog for development on nRF5x with Eclipse.