nRf mesh

RE: nRf mesh

Davit Tsakadze — Mon, 20 May 2019 14:31:32 GMT

I contacted the manufacturer and the system doesn't have a central management facility. An usual problem with Chinese companies. I'll try to think of a solution, maybe I'll change the development boards of each parking lot.

Thanks for your help.

RE: nRf mesh

awneil — Mon, 20 May 2019 14:13:57 GMT

That's really not a question for this forum.

I'm not sure that such a thing would even be possible as a single device- you'd need a whole mesh of devices to cover the required area, and then each one could interact with "gates" in its vicinity, and one would provide a "gateway" to the laptop.

But you would require the detailed BLE implementation details of the "gates" to do that,

Again, surely a central management facility like this must be built into such a system?!

It makes no sense to deploy such a system without that facility!!

😮

RE: nRf mesh

Davit Tsakadze — Mon, 20 May 2019 14:07:01 GMT

So there doesn't exist a BLE device that can create a mesh with a device like itself and then work just as an extender for my laptop's Bluetooth? So that my laptop can see the devices in range of the mesh network.

RE: nRf mesh

awneil — Mon, 20 May 2019 14:03:15 GMT

But, surely, a system like this must have some sort of central management facility?!

Davit Tsakadze - This really needs to be discussed with the supplier/manufacturer - it has nothing to do with Nordic.

You should also involve the "building company" - if this system is not fit for purpose...

RE: nRf mesh

Edvin — Mon, 20 May 2019 13:59:15 GMT

Yes. It sounds like you need to update the FW on the gates. Either that, or add/develop some nodes that can translate from BLE to Mesh.

RE: nRf mesh

awneil — Mon, 20 May 2019 13:50:53 GMT

You won't be able to do this without firmware development.

Doesn't sound like the gates use Mesh - so that won't help you.

This is not an end-user forum.

RE: nRf mesh

Davit Tsakadze — Mon, 20 May 2019 13:44:32 GMT

I'm a web developer

RE: nRf mesh

awneil — Mon, 20 May 2019 13:35:46 GMT

[quote userid="79366" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/46372/nrf-mesh/187952"] I'm not an android developer[/quote]

And are you an embedded firmware developer ?

RE: nRf mesh

Davit Tsakadze — Mon, 20 May 2019 13:23:49 GMT

Yes, I am the "guard".

I asked the manufacturer and the only things they could give me was:

1. An app that can talk to gates in range of my phone.

2. An android SDK which I can use to talk to gates from my own app.

They told me that other companies used that SDK to make web apps. (I don't think an android SDK can be used for web apps, but still that's what they told me)

The thing is, I'm not an android developer and don't really know how to use an android SDK at all. If there is any device that will be able to just extend the range of my laptop's Bluetooth to cover all those 430 gates, it would be the best solution. I would install Bluestacks and run the app on laptop.

RE: nRf mesh

awneil — Mon, 20 May 2019 13:04:28 GMT

So are you the "guard" ?

Surely, you should be talking to the gate manufacturer about this - as it must be a common requirement?

RE: nRf mesh

Davit Tsakadze — Mon, 20 May 2019 13:00:53 GMT

I will explain exactly what project I'm working on:

A building company has quite a big area in their complex. The area covers 430 parking gates that are intended to be used by those who live in the complex. There is a guard room next to this area. The guard needs to have access to all of these parking gates. (these parking gates use BLE) I have an android app, provided by the makers of the parking gates, that can add parking lots and lock/unlock them. The problem I have is to cover this big area (of 430 lots). If there is anything that can extend the range of my laptop or android device, without the need to write any application, my problem would be completely solved.

Thanks

RE: nRf mesh

awneil — Mon, 20 May 2019 12:45:56 GMT

Yes, it can be done; eg,

https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/topic/com.nordic.infocenter.sdk5.v15.3.0/ble_sdk_app_rscs_relay.html

But remember that BLE is not really designed as a long-range network.

Maybe you should be considering a more appropriate radio technology?

Is this just to bridge the distance between a PC, perhaps in an office, and the mesh in the actual parking lot?

In that case, it might make more sense to have some other form of link from the PC to the lot, and this connects into the mesh at the lot ... ?

Again, unclear if this is a commercial development, or a student/hobby project - or what?

RE: nRf mesh

Davit Tsakadze — Mon, 20 May 2019 12:25:40 GMT

Is there any device that can do that job? Work just as a BLE extension?

RE: nRf mesh

Edvin — Mon, 20 May 2019 11:48:24 GMT

No. A mesh network doesn't work as a standard BLE extension. If you want to transmit some data this has to be done in your application.

RE: nRf mesh

Davit Tsakadze — Mon, 20 May 2019 07:46:15 GMT

Can I use the dongle to just extend the range of my laptop's bluetooth? I mean, if I mesh 2 dongles with each other, then insert one dongle into my laptop, will I be able to connect to devices that are in range of the second dongle?

RE: nRf mesh

awneil — Thu, 02 May 2019 09:04:51 GMT

Why are we suddenly seeing so many like this ... ?

https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/46811/nrf52840-dongle

RE: nRf mesh

Edvin — Thu, 02 May 2019 08:45:18 GMT

1) Yes. They only need power to operate as a mesh node. In addition it needs to be connected to the rest of the HW in your parking gate, depending on what you are using them for. I assume you have some sort of sensor or motor via SPI, UART or similar.

2) For development, I really suggest that you use the nRF52840 DK, because it is easier to debug on this device (because it has an on board debugger). When you have an application that is working, you can port it to fit the dongle instead, and then deploy the firmware to all your dongles (the gates). Besides this, it is the same chip running on both the dongles and the DK. But you should be aware of this blog post before you start programming your dongles for the first time. Also, please note that the USB part of the dongle isn't connected to the normal GPIOs. They are the USB pins, and this can't be changed/configured on the dongle. If you need GPIOs for SPI, UART, TWI/I2C, or something else, you must use the pinouts on the side of the dongle.

3) They can be connected directly or via cable. The Dongle has one USB port, which is the part that looks like the USB stick on the end of the dongle. The DK has two USB ports. The one on the short end is the USB port that goes through the programming chip. It can be used for programming, and UART communication over USB, which is translated automatically via the programming chip, as long as the UART Pins P0.06 and P0.08 are used in the UART settings. They are set to this by default in our examples.
The USB port on the long side of the DK is the USB peripheral. You can use this for direct USB communication.

4) 50 meters is pushing it a bit. At least if you have traffic from other devices as well (430 devices). If you use a Mesh network, the range will be increased throughout the network. You would only need to be in range to the closest node, and the messages will be passed on (relayed) through the network.

Best regards,

Edvin

RE: nRf mesh

smarter — Wed, 01 May 2019 11:08:58 GMT

Hello Edvin,

Sorry for the late response.

Yes, I have a big number of parking gates, 430. I want to make a single platform which can communicate with all of them from a server. I'm planning to use Nrf52840 devices to create a mesh system and connect each of them to multiple parking gates. Then I will connect a raspberry pi to this mesh system (pi will be connected to one Nrf52840) and it will send information to the server over Wi-fi.

I have a few questions:

1). Can I plug Nrf52840 Dongle directly into a usb charger or does it need to be connected to any other board? I mean will it work if I just power the dongles using a usb charger?

2). Which device will be a better solution for my problem: Nrf52840 DK or Nrf52840 Dongle? And why?

3). Can I connect Nrf52840 DK and Nrf52840 Dongle into a raspberry pi directly with a usb cable? Or do they need to communicate with pi over bluetooth?

4). How much is the range of Nrf52840 in an open area, with no walls or barriers? I do hope to get at least 30-50 m range.

Thanks in advance

RE: nRf mesh

Edvin — Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:06:36 GMT

Hello,

1) Yes. The dongle can communicate with any BLE device.

2) Yes. They can both communicate with BLE devices.

3) What protocol (BLE or Mesh) is your "final device" using? Either way, I assume the answer is yes.

4) Are you talking about Mesh or Bluetooth Low energy (BLE) now? If BLE, one nRF52840 can have up to 20 connections. In Mesh you can have probably as many as you like. The theoretical limit is about 32000 nodes, but the throughput lowers when the amount of nodes increase.

5) It is difficult to give an exact answer. It depends heavily on the environment (concrete vs. wooden walls vs. clear line of sight), the background noise etc. If you have a mesh network, the network range will extend through the nodes. Not all nodes has to be in range of one another, as long as there is a path of nodes within range between the endpoints that communicate.

6) Yes you can. Please check out this github repo:

https://github.com/NordicSemiconductor/pc-nrfconnect-core

7) No. The radios doesn't support WiFi. Is that what you meant, or did you mean "coexist" with WiFi on another chip?

I hope that clarifies some of your questions. Basically, if you have an nRF52840, it supports up to 20 concurrent BLE connections. It can also be a mesh node (probably not at the same time as supporting 20 connections, due to memory and time restrictions).

I imagine you would have quite a large number of "parking gates". Maybe a couple of hundred? I suggest you look into setting these up as Bluetooth Mesh nodes, which seems like a good choice of protocol for your devices. I imagine it isn't too much data being transferred to and from the parking gates?

If you want to communicate with this network with a computer, you would need one device that can "translate" from Mesh to either BLE or Serial (UART or USB). You can do this with an nRF52840. How do you want your network data to your computer? BLE or Serial? Or do you need it through WiFi? If so, you need a node that supports WiFi and Mesh. WiFi isn't supported in any of our chips, unfortunately. But you can create a node that uses an nRF52840 to read the Mesh messages, and then send it to another device over Serial or BLE, and this device (e.g. a Raspberry Pi) can do the network part.

Best regards,

Edvin