Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

Martin Lesund — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 12:04:26 GMT

Hi John,

Please use the recommended v0.4.0 tag

How to get the v0.4.0 tag of NCS:

cd ncs/ncs
git checkout master
git pull
git checkout v0.4.0
west update

Then you do not need to worry about any other versions since this is a stable release. (it is not recommended to use the master branch)

Program the Asset Tracker sample

Programming Asset Tracker tutorial

If you have provisioned other keys to the modem flash you have overwritten the already pre-provisioned nrf cloud credentials which can be the reason why you cannot connect to the nrf cloud. If you can run the standard mqtt_simple sample and see that you get the expected result : https://developer.nordicsemi.com/nRF_Connect_SDK/doc/latest/nrf/samples/nrf9160/mqtt_simple/README.html

Then this is most likely the reason why you cannot access the nrf cloud.

If that is the case we can send you the certificates over a Direct message if you want to connect to the nrf cloud with your nrf91DK.

Please go through the nRF Connect SDK tutorial which will answer your other questions: https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/nordic/cellular-iot-guides/b/getting-started-cellular/posts/nrf-connect-sdk-tutorial

Please disregard the UICR.hex since the same functionality has been implemented in the spm.

Best Regards,
Martin L.

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

John — Wed, 05 Jun 2019 17:25:34 GMT

Hi Martin, I did what you said and yesterday I was getting a different result, whereby I was seeing a continuous reboot complaining about a 111 error. Which in thinking about it may be entirely reasonable because looking at your log you have paired with nrfcloud.

I'm guessing that my connection and CWALLACH's connection is "being refused" because a particular IMEI "yours" already has paired with nrfcloud.

However this morning after

After nrfjprog -e

nrfjprog --program 0535.jan_merged.hex -f nrf91 --sectorerase -r --verify

I only receive

SPM: NS image at 0x8000

SPM: NS MSP at 0x2002a898

SPM: NS reset vector at 0xfda1

SPM: prepare to jump to Non-Secure image.

***** Booting Zephyr OS v1.14.99-ncs1-1066-gf210011b9609 *****

Application started

LTE LC config ...

Are we missing a couple of steps here as discussed yesterday?

Shouldn't I be loading SPM and downloading .elf first, because of the UICR and then reflashing the modem software then doing:?

nrfjprog --program 0535.jan_merged.hex -f nrf91 --sectorerase -r --verify

Anyway the above non repeatable behavior regardless of the SPM thing seems similar to my experience with the NZ distributor that I spent several hours with yesterday, who were as always extremely helpful.

Between ourselves we had two different machines (Windows 10) using the MASTER branch of the software Segger 4.16 Both compiled the Asset Tracker.

With no changes to the merged.hex produced we were able to make three nrf9160-DK function as expected (begin pairing process) and by erasing the chip and loading SPM .elf and modem and same merged.hex fail whereby the pairing process was never initiated.

By doing as mentioned above I think we have eliminated (I hope) the tools and the application, as it would seem most unlikely that we were able to between ourselves make identical boards (version 0.8.5) vacillate between functioning as expected and failing reliably with the same merged.hex. We can only surmise and or conclude that it is something related to the UICR mechanism and or modem. which we have no control over.

On a completely different note:

I have noticed that sometimes (perhaps it's me) that my environment becomes unstable when I manipulate the versions using git checkout <tag> and west update to the point that I trash the directory and start again with the following:

mkdir ncs
cd ncs
west init -m github.com/.../fw-nrfconnect-nrf
west update

Then everything returns to normal for a while.

If I may make a suggestion, as it seems that most users will be using either 
the MASTER branch or a tagged release of their choice that to avoid/eliminate any 
possible corruption potentially caused by Git or West that it would be really
simple to upload relevant zips (in the usual format) of the tagged releases on the 
Nordic website?

The software is complex enough without having to absolutely rely upon the various
scripts involved to hopefully deliver the correct version of the software, which 
currently from my own experience, without grumbling about Git or anyone else
most certainly doesn't seem as reliable as it should/could be.
:)

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

Martin Lesund — Wed, 05 Jun 2019 08:30:12 GMT

Hi John,

I tested your application "0535.jan_merged.hex".

SPM: NS reset vector at 0xfda1
SPM: prepare to jump to Non-Secure image.
***** Booting Zephyr OS v1.14.99-ncs1-1066-gf210011b9609 *****
Application started
LTE LC config ...
NRF_CLOUD_EVT_TRANSPORT_CONNECTED
NRF_CLOUD_EVT_USER_ASSOCIATION_REQUEST
Please enter the user association pattern using the buttons and switches
Button 2
Button 1
Switch 2
Switch 1
Switch 2
Switch 1
NRF_CLOUD_EVT_USER_ASSOCIATED
NRF_CLOUD_EVT_TRANSPORT_DISCONNECTED
NRF_CLOUD_EVT_TRANSPORT_CONNECTED
NRF_CLOUD_EVT_USER_ASSOCIATED
NRF_CLOUD_EVT_READY
NRF_CLOUD_EVT_SENSOR_ATTACHED
NRF_CLOUD_EVT_SENSOR_ATTACHED
NRF_CLOUD_EVT_SENSOR_ATTACHED
NRF_CLOUD_EVT_SENSOR_ATTACHED
NRF_CLOUD_EVT_SENSOR_ATTACHED
NRF_CLOUD_EVT_SENSOR_ATTACHED
NRF_CLOUD_EVT_SENSOR_ATTACHED
NRF_CLOUD_EVT_SENSOR_ATTACHED
GPS device found

Notice the ***** Booting Zephyr OS v1.14.99-ncs1-1066-gf210011b9609 *****

Is different than what you are getting as output.

Please do the following;

- Erase what's on the chip: nrfjprog -e

- Confirm that you flash that file the following way:

nrfjprog --program 0535.jan_merged.hex -f nrf91 --sectorerase -r --verify

Then you should get the same output.

(it is possible that there was "garbage data" from before interfering the application)

Best Regards,
Martin L.

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

John — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 21:13:44 GMT

Thanks very much for doing that.

Mine doesn't reboot, but only does this:

SPM: NS image at 0x8000

SPM: NS MSP at 0x2002a4a8

SPM: NS reset vector at 0xfd6d

SPM: prepare to jump to Non-Secure image.

***** Booting Zephyr OS v1.14.99-ncs1 *****

Application started

LTE LC config ...

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

CWallach — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 21:03:06 GMT

Flashed but doesn't work and reboots every minute or so.

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

John — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:22:54 GMT

Thanks very much for your response.

Quick question, are you able to program your board with the merged hex asset tracker here:

devzone.nordicsemi.com/.../0535.jan_5F00_merged.hex

I'd be really interested if it works for you...

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

CWallach — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:16:26 GMT

One of the problems with making a working nRF9160 sample project is that the software tools, modem firmware, and SDK version all have bugs where only specific combinations work. After considerable anguish I got the Asset Tracker example project to build
and run.

This version of tools worked:

Segger Embedded Studio for ARM Relese 4.16
Note this is different from Segger Embedded Studio for BLE development.

C:\Users\cwallach\cgnuarmemb\7 2018-q2-update

C:\Users\CWallach>cmake --version
cmake version 3.14.1

C:\Users\CWallach>git version
git version 2.21.0.windows.1

C:\Users\CWallach>python -V
Python 3.7.3

C:\Users\CWallach>ninja --version
1.9.0

C:\Users\CWallach>gperf --version
GNU gperf 3.1

Modem firmware mfwnrf916007029alpha.zip

SDK branch v0.4.0-rc2

Load project SPM (/ncs2/nrf/samples/nrf9160/spm) using the PCA10090 board selection
Make sure the GNU library is set correctly and that you are pointing to the nCS2/zephyr base directory
Build the file (F7)
Load Asset Tracker application (/ncs2/nrf/application/asset_tracker) using the PCA10090ns board selection
Build Solution
/target (Select J-link)
/target download File (Intel Hex) (/ncs2/nrf/application/asset_tracker/build_PCA10090/zephyr/merge.hex
Monitor the output in the Link Monitor when you reset the board.

Hope this helps!

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

John — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 18:39:05 GMT

Hi Martin.

I erased all then flashed the merged hex using:nrfjprog

C:\Users\jcris\Desktop\AWS Stuff>nrfjprog.exe --program jan_merged.hex -f nrf91 --sectorerase --verify
Parsing hex file.
Erasing page at address 0x0.
Erasing page at address 0x1000.
Erasing page at address 0x2000.
Erasing page at address 0x3000.
Erasing page at address 0x8000.
Erasing page at address 0x9000.
Erasing page at address 0xA000.
Erasing page at address 0xB000.
Erasing page at address 0xC000.
Erasing page at address 0xD000.
Erasing page at address 0xE000.
Erasing page at address 0xF000.
Erasing page at address 0x10000.
Erasing page at address 0x11000.
Erasing page at address 0x12000.
Erasing page at address 0x13000.
Erasing page at address 0x14000.
Erasing page at address 0x15000.
Erasing page at address 0x16000.
Erasing page at address 0x17000.
Erasing page at address 0x18000.
Erasing page at address 0x19000.
Erasing page at address 0x1A000.
Erasing page at address 0x1B000.
Erasing page at address 0x1C000.
Erasing page at address 0x1D000.
Erasing page at address 0x1E000.
Erasing page at address 0x1F000.
Erasing page at address 0x20000.
Erasing page at address 0x21000.
Erasing page at address 0x22000.
Erasing page at address 0x23000.
Erasing page at address 0x24000.
Erasing page at address 0x25000.
Erasing page at address 0x26000.
Erasing page at address 0x27000.
Erasing page at address 0x28000.
Erasing page at address 0x29000.
Erasing page at address 0x2A000.
Erasing page at address 0x2B000.
Erasing page at address 0x2C000.
Erasing page at address 0x2D000.
Erasing page at address 0x2E000.
Erasing page at address 0x2F000.
Erasing page at address 0x30000.
Erasing page at address 0x31000.
Erasing page at address 0x32000.
Applying system reset.
Checking that the area to write is not protected.
Programming device.
Verifying programming.
Verified OK.

C:\Users\jcris\Desktop\Modem>

I tried the same process using Segger, same result.

However if I load SPM using the secure 10090 board and download the .elf

I can then DFU the modem software.

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

Martin Lesund — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 11:36:57 GMT

Hi John,

This will be fixed in the next modem DFU release.

The reason I am saying that you do not need the "UICR.hex" is that this is set by the application. That means that you can flash whatever application you like to the nrf91 and the UICR are will be programmed correctly.
This can be confirmed by erasing all and then flashing an application and doing the modem dfu. So please disregard the uicr.hex from now on.

With regards to the log from LTE Link Monitor, could you disable the "automatic requests" and only run the asset_tracker without sending AT commands since this can interfere with the connection process happening in the "LTE LC Config".

Best Regards,

Martin L.

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

John — Mon, 03 Jun 2019 20:06:34 GMT

Hi Martin.

I've used an ibasis sim

Flashed your asset_tracker (4).hex

Same result.

With reference to your comment that uicr.hex isn't required.

It seems that after an erase all with NRF Connect Programmer that the modem software is unable to be installed, however if I flash uicr it can be.

Not understanding fully the function that uicr performs, I'm curious if I'm using the correct version as it certainly seems to be doing "something".

If you also say that I shouldn't be silly enough to erase all...then someone has to do it 🙂

C:\Users\jcris\Desktop\Modem>cd ..

C:\Users\jcris\Desktop>cd uicr

C:\Users\jcris\Desktop\UICR>nrfjprog.exe --program uicr_tcxo.hex -f nrf91 --sectorerase --verify
Parsing hex file.
WARNING: A UICR write operation has been requested but UICR has not been
WARNING: erased. Please verify that the result is correct.
Applying system reset.
Checking that the area to write is not protected.
Programming device.
Verifying programming.
Verified OK.

C:\Users\jcris\Desktop\UICR>cd ..

C:\Users\jcris\Desktop>cd modem

C:\Users\jcris\Desktop\Modem>nrf9160_mdm_dfu --update
Configure APP IPC as non-secure
Configure IPC HW for DFU
Configure APP RAM as non-secure
Store DFU indication into shared memory
Power up / reset modem
Start polling IPC.MODEM_CTRL_EVENT to receive root key digest
Modem responded with a5000001
Modem root key digest received: 72b3d7c13e549acf08bbc48cb936b9b861e4cbae28a7537c9859a6d945ee9489
Store IPC DFU executable into shared memory
Send IPC.APP_CTRL_TASK
Start polling IPC.MODEM_CTRL_EVENT To receive 'Started' indication from DFU executable
IPC DFU 'Started' indication from DFU received
Updating modem firmware
Programming pages from address 0x59602000
Programming pages from address 0x6000
Programming pages from address 0x50000
Programming pages from address 0x60000
Programming pages from address 0x70000
Programming pages from address 0x80000
Programming pages from address 0x90000
Programming pages from address 0xa0000
Programming pages from address 0xb0000
Programming pages from address 0xc0000
Programming pages from address 0xd0000
Programming pages from address 0xe0000
Programming pages from address 0xf0000
Programming pages from address 0x100000
Programming pages from address 0x110000
Programming pages from address 0x120000
Programming pages from address 0x130000
Programming pages from address 0x140000
Programming pages from address 0x150000
Programming pages from address 0x160000
Programming pages from address 0x170000
Programming pages from address 0x180000
Programming pages from address 0x190000
Programming pages from address 0x1a0000
Programming pages from address 0x1b0000
Programming pages from address 0x1c0000
Programming pages from address 0x1d0000
Programming pages from address 0x1e0000
Programming pages from address 0x1f0000
Programming pages from address 0x200000
Programming pages from address 0x210000
Programming pages from address 0x220000
Programming pages from address 0x230000
Programming pages from address 0x27c000
Programing firmware time: 47.579352
Firmware update time including overhead: 50.544982
Firmware updated.
Starting verification
Digest reading started
Firmware digest received from modem: bf002e90453a1ed0566e8ff81580d78ef8bbd44cdf3886abf51dc853f9443349
Verification success
Total time used: 55.257405

C:\Users\jcris\Desktop\Modem>

devzone.nordicsemi.com/.../2019_2D00_06_2D00_03T19_5F00_40_5F00_06.536Z_2D00_log.txt

Here's the current log file from NRF Connect Link Monitor.

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

Martin Lesund — Mon, 03 Jun 2019 14:01:39 GMT

Hi John,
Please follow the guide on how to build and flash the asset_tracker: https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/nordic/b/cellular-iot-guides/posts/getting-started-with-nrf9160-dk#h34sjqfiv5sq5kic2a102m2cw9mf4o9

You should not need to flash uicr_tcxo since that is not needed anymore.

Please try with the iBasis SIM card or another SIM card.

Re-attaching the .hex file mentioned in the last post:
devzone.nordicsemi.com/.../asset_5F00_tracker-_2800_4_2900_.hex

Also, it would be beneficial if you could share the full log from the LTE Link Monitor.

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

John — Mon, 03 Jun 2019 09:11:38 GMT

Ok, so I'm connected.

Loading asset Tracker now.

It seems I'm unable to download the asset_tracker.hex you have given me. Says "forbidden"

You do not have permission to view this directory or page.

Anyway in an attempt t move forward Jan gave me this merged.hex from the master branch a few moments ago.

I've tried loading it using Segger (4.16) Window 10

All I get is LTE Lc Config....

And led 3 flashing.

I think this means that it's trying to resolve DNS and obviously can't.

devzone.nordicsemi.com/.../jan_5F00_merged.hex

I've also tried as you suggested

nrfjprog.exe --program jan_merged.hex -f nrf91 --sectorerase --verify
Parsing hex file.
Erasing page at address 0x0.
Erasing page at address 0x1000.
Erasing page at address 0x2000.
Erasing page at address 0x3000.
Erasing page at address 0x8000.
Erasing page at address 0x9000.
Erasing page at address 0xA000.
Erasing page at address 0xB000.
Erasing page at address 0xC000.
Erasing page at address 0xD000.
Erasing page at address 0xE000.
Erasing page at address 0xF000.
Erasing page at address 0x10000.
Erasing page at address 0x11000.
Erasing page at address 0x12000.
Erasing page at address 0x13000.
Erasing page at address 0x14000.
Erasing page at address 0x15000.
Erasing page at address 0x16000.
Erasing page at address 0x17000.
Erasing page at address 0x18000.
Erasing page at address 0x19000.
Erasing page at address 0x1A000.
Erasing page at address 0x1B000.
Erasing page at address 0x1C000.
Erasing page at address 0x1D000.
Erasing page at address 0x1E000.
Erasing page at address 0x1F000.
Erasing page at address 0x20000.
Erasing page at address 0x21000.
Erasing page at address 0x22000.
Erasing page at address 0x23000.
Erasing page at address 0x24000.
Erasing page at address 0x25000.
Erasing page at address 0x26000.
Erasing page at address 0x27000.
Erasing page at address 0x28000.
Erasing page at address 0x29000.
Erasing page at address 0x2A000.
Erasing page at address 0x2B000.
Erasing page at address 0x2C000.
Erasing page at address 0x2D000.
Erasing page at address 0x2E000.
Erasing page at address 0x2F000.
Erasing page at address 0x30000.
Erasing page at address 0x31000.
Erasing page at address 0x32000.
Applying system reset.
Checking that the area to write is not protected.
Programming device.
Verifying programming.
Verified OK.

Same result

SPM: NS image at 0x8000

SPM: NS MSP at 0x2002a898

SPM: NS reset vector at 0xfda1

SPM: prepare to jump to Non-Secure image.

***** Booting Zephyr OS v1.14.99-ncs1-1066-gf210011b9609 *****

Application started

LTE LC config ...

Just a guess Martin is there a new version of uicr_tcxo.hex that should be loaded?

I used the NRF Connect Programmer and erased all.

I understand that this required uicr_tcxo.hex to be reloaded with the following command

nrfjprog.exe --program uicr_tcxo.hex -f nrf91 --sectorerase --verify

devzone.nordicsemi.com/.../uicr_5F00_tcxo.hex

Above is the file I loaded, then the modem from:

https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/Low-power-cellular-IoT/nRF9160/Download#infotabs

Then compiled and loaded asset _tracker producing merged.hex and downloaded intel hex file.

Quite a bunch of times now.

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

Martin Lesund — Mon, 03 Jun 2019 08:58:01 GMT

Hi John,
I can confirm that the asset tracker in v0.4.0 runs fine on the nrf9160-dk.

Let us first figure out if you can connect to the network.
Please flash the AT client as described in the Getting started tutorial.

Then I want you to open and use the LTE Link Monitor with the nrf9160DK connected to your computer and select your kit in the LTE Link Monitor and hit the reset button on the nRF91DK.

One thing to note with the LTE Link Monitor status sidebar:

Is that it does not update automatically, you have to actually send the "AT+CFUN?" command so the LTE Link Monitor application will go through all the necessary AT commands (a script) and send them to the modem and then it will update the responses to the "status sidebar".

Here you can see I actually have a connection but the status bar has not been updated: (this is after ~3 minutes after It went through the automatic AT commands)

If I send the "AT+CFUN?" command again you can see that it will update to the correct parameters:

and you actually see that I have a connection with the network. ("Telenor Norge AS" in my case)

Please confirm that this happens on your side as well before we move on to the next step.

Now that we know that we have a network connection we can try the "asset_tracker" application which will connect to the nrf cloud.

I am adding the precompiled .hex file of the "Asset_tracker" merged with the "Secure Partition Manager" (SPM): (this is from the v0.4.0 release)

asset_tracker.hex

To flash this .hex file please use the following command in the command line:

nrfjprog --program asset_tracker.hex -f nrf91 --sectorerase -r --verify

Note: You can use the LTE Link Monitor as a standard serial output Terminal if you deselect the "Automatic requests" setting:

This will prohibit that the LTE Link Monitor will run through the script sending AT commands when sending for example "AT+CFUN?". (it will only send it once)

Please have the LTE Link Monitor open while testing the "asset_tracker" application to easier see what is actually going on.

Here you can see the output after the "asset_tracker" got a connection with the nrf cloud server.

- "LTE LC config ..." is showing while the kit is trying to get a network attachment, and the following output is from the application itself saying it found and got access to the nrf cloud server.

If you get the same output, you can now go into www.nrfcloud.com and pair your nRF91DK with your account following the steps on the nrf cloud webpage. (you do not need to register the iBasis SIM card more than once)

After you have followed the Pairing sequence given by nrfcloud you should see this verified in the output terminal as well.

Now you should be connected to nrfcloud.

Extra tip:

For faster attachment with the network the next time you power on the board is to save the information about the network in the modem flash.

To do this just send the AT command "AT+CFUN=0".

This will Power off the modem as well as saving the network information in the modem flash.

(note that you need to power cycle the board after this command to turn on the modem)

Best Regards,
Martin L.

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

John — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 09:18:42 GMT

Martin, I would be very grateful if you would confirm that the asset tracker in v0.4.0 runs on the nrf9160-dk (0.8.5) and actually connects to nrfcloud and allows the creation of a new device.

I'm using windows 10 (which shouldn't matter) and the latest modem release firmware.

What ever I try I'm unable to connect to nrfcloud

Led 3 blinks, despite me having a cellular connection as indicated by link monitor.

I'm used the merged hex that is produced by Segger after erase all.

If your's works and mine doesn't then perhaps, for the good of all concerned, we could work out what the differences are and try and resolve them, however if you can't make it work I'll stop "kissing frogs" and wait until you advise the software has been "fixed".

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

John — Mon, 27 May 2019 20:13:11 GMT

Sorry my mistake. 🙂

https://github.com/NordicPlayground/fw-nrfconnect-nrf/releases

Tag is v0.4.0 as you mentioned.

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

John — Mon, 27 May 2019 20:10:34 GMT

Martin, your comments are very much appreciated. I have somewhat naively assumed that if an example has been pushed to Git Master branch and compiles then it should follow that someone had done a tiny bit of testing such as inserting a sim and gaining a connection, which clearly isn't the case and as a consequence reflects badly upon Nordic.

However, now I clearly understand to use the latest tag obtainable from the following link:

https://github.com/NordicPlayground/fw-nrfconnect-zephyr/tags

(Which by the way seems to have changed since yesterday and is no longer v0.4.0 and is now v1.14.99-ncs1)

Please confirm that I'm correct.

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

Martin Lesund — Mon, 27 May 2019 11:46:58 GMT

Hi John,

I appreciate your feedback, and it is very important and helpful for us when the community tells us what we are doing good and what we can improve upon.
We will absolutely take your comments in consideration in our way forward to improve the user experience for developers.

I can understand many of your points in your feedback, and I will just let you know that we are and have been working on improving this.

e.g.
With regards to "starting from scratch" with nRF91, we updated the Getting Started Tutorial last week to stay updated with the changes that was introduced in the v0.4.0 release.

This tutorial also guides the user to use the latest "Getting started Assistant" application in nRF Connect for Desktop to set up the Toolchain and NCS version.

It is recommended to use the latest tag (which for this time being v0.4.0) and not the master branch when you are working with NCS for the best stable experience.

Please take a look in the Getting started tutorial and you will probably see that it includes most of the things you are requesting.

Best Regards,

Martin L.

RE: Whisper Ware (nRf9160)

John — Mon, 27 May 2019 08:31:47 GMT

After spending several more hours today investigating how to make any of the examples function, including deleting the programdata/chocolatey directory and removing python and any legacy I could find.

Eventually I discovered that the Master branch of the SDK doesn't run properly.

However after performing the following:

cd ncs/nrf
git checkout master
git pull
git checkout v0.4.0
west update

and thereafter following the procedure to manually download to the nRF9160-DK merged.hex (found within the build directory/zephry) after doing an erase all.

The Asset Tracker at least and finally responded to AT commands.

There is clearly immense frustration from the dev zone community regarding the current software implementation which is changing albeit on a daily basis.

In my humble opinion it would be best if there was a single example on a single operating system, that actually functioned rather than forcing the community to stumble upon "whispers" and esoteric differences to make an already highly complicated product perform as expected.

To require programmers/developers to proceed in this manner is at best very poor/bad practice and completely unacceptable.

I would be extremely grateful if my comments were taken even slightly seriously please.