A few asset tracker questions

RE: A few asset tracker questions

Markus Tacker (he/him) — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 14:43:22 GMT

PR that adds the note: github.com/.../74

RE: A few asset tracker questions

Markus Tacker (he/him) — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:29:05 GMT

This would mean roughly 400 MB / month / device of pure data, not counting the transport overhead. And just for one device. MQTT and TCP is not really designed for sending streaming data, and adds significant overhead to the payload.

Assuming that it's OK the lose some of the packages (or even large chunks of data, since 1 hour takes up 1/2 MB of memory and depending on the application you could have longer phases of no connectivity), I still would look into using UDP and sending binary data to an endpoint, that then forwards the data to the data lake.

RE: A few asset tracker questions

billywalton — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 09:53:03 GMT

I have reattached the requirements as i as still hopeful for some input on the final points

My client's requirement is to sample 8 channels of ADC at a variable rate, maximum 10Hz, As low power as possible.

So, assuming 2 bytes per sample, 1.6K every 10 secs or 9.6K every minute

If the LTE signal is lost, then I have to store the data until I can get a connection and upload it (am fitting the SDCARD for this I guess)

I like the provisioning and FOTA offered by nRFCloud, its neat, clean and easy to implement

But the sampled data does not necessarily need to pass through the cloud (as I read somewhere there is a 1M transaction limit or something?)

I have the SAADC ports running, and modified the env_senser to test it, all looks good.

I only want to use the 9160 part.

The client is happy to use webhooks or MQTT to accept the data into their database, nice and simple.

So could you suggest how you may go about this type of implementation?

Option 1, Use nRFCloud for provisioning, FOTA and sample data transactions

Option 2, Use nRFCloud for provisioning and FOTA, but for the sample data, use an HTTP POST method to an external fixed IP server (directly to the database).

Option 3, A better option which I have missed.

Thanks again for your help

RE: A few asset tracker questions

billywalton — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 09:49:28 GMT

Hi Markus,

[quote userid="24652" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/72683/a-few-asset-tracker-questions/300315#300315"]After all, if you want a turn-key solution, with no additional costs and no maintenance effort, nRF Connect for Cloud is absolutely the better choice. And the asset_tracker application offers the optimal implementation of their API and their advanced features, like A-GPS and FOTA v2.[/quote]

This statement has been the clearest pointer of all for me so far and certainly clarifies the offerings, it also ties up with my own experience of evaluating the options.

If I had read that at the beginning, for this project I would not have needed to consider it.

RE: A few asset tracker questions

Markus Tacker (he/him) — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 08:55:06 GMT

I am not clear on what your clients requirement are.

RE: A few asset tracker questions

Markus Tacker (he/him) — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 08:52:36 GMT

Hei Billy,

thanks so much for the detailed response!

[quote userid="69265" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/72683/a-few-asset-tracker-questions/300242#300242"]1) Had to use Linux[/quote]

it is mentioned in the System Requirements that you can use Windows, and all the tools mentioned (Node.js, AWS CLI, Segger) in use should be working fine under native Windows, too. It's just that we currently have no automated tests to ensure that everything works under Windows. I've linked your feedback to the thread about Windows support and I will keep an eye on feedback around that. However, I think it will be clear with my next comment, why this was not an immediate concern.

[quote userid="69265" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/72683/a-few-asset-tracker-questions/300242#300242"]2) AWS[/quote]

I realized that we do not mention in the documentation that the nRF Asset Tracker project expects some prior experience with AWS and developing solutions on AWS; after all it is designed for developers who want a headstart on how to set up their AWS account for our devices, but then want to modify the solution to their needs.

[quote userid="69265" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/72683/a-few-asset-tracker-questions/300242#300242"]When I compare this to running the Asset_Tracker using the nRFCloud, there is no contest[/quote]

And this is where the documentation failed you, we should be clearer on what to expect from nRF Asset Tracker.

After all, if you want a turn-key solution, with no additional costs and no maintenance effort, nRF Connect for Cloud is absolutely the better choice. And the asset_tracker application offers the optimal implementation of their API and their advanced features, like A-GPS and FOTA v2.

RE: A few asset tracker questions

billywalton — Tue, 16 Mar 2021 21:24:21 GMT

In addition, I am very open to you suggesting a way to satisfy my client's requirements using an AWS solution if you feel its the best way. I am happy to revisit if the potential is there.

RE: A few asset tracker questions

billywalton — Tue, 16 Mar 2021 20:59:08 GMT

Hi Markus,

Of course,

The setup process on the cloud side was considerable, the main points which hit me included:

1) Had to use Linux

It's not that I'm afraid of Linux, its simply down to knowing that when I deploy the project to the maintainers, I need to deploy multiple OS's for them, we use SES on windows for the firmware devel, our current windows versions don't support the windows app store distros. All in all its a pain to have to include another OS in the support requirements.

2) AWS

Its big, bulky, massively involved, loads of restrictions (ie supported region selections), more financial commitment on top of SIMs. The dependencies and install process wasn't simple at all, your documentation is good but does not cover everything I had to do to get the AWS part working with all the dependencies it needed, how it works, what relies on what, etc

For me, I had never used AWS before, but I have been developing for years. When I have finished this project I need to hand this over to someone, which would suggest that I have to add Linux and AWS skills to their skillsets.

When Amazon change things in the future, I can see frequent maintenance requirements to fix things that may get broken, which would again involve confident Linux and AWS skills for whoever is employed to support it.

When I compare this to running the Asset_Tracker using the nRFCloud, there is no contest - it was so easy, quick and fluid to set up, no additional OS needed, no AWS learning curve, I literally had it up and running in minutes, it looks nice, it works, it ticks the boxes with far far less commitment and time.

So it's hard to justify. I feel more exposed to future support and maintenance requirements potentially needed when using AWS.

In fact, Nordic has done a stunning job with the nRFCloud offering, if the nRFCloud worked with the Asset Tracker 2, I think I would already be steaming down that path.

These points are solely based on evaluating the two Asset_Tracker apps, so it was a good experience for me to see the differences involved. I'm not saying I wouldn't choose AWS for a different project in the future, it's just the effort to get it working in this case, for this project, was much greater then I had imagined. I hope Asset_tracker 2 gets a few alternative choices in the future, just for that reason, choice.

All that said, its clear a lot of work has been put into this, and the end-user result is very nice.

I am always open to suggestions and welcome your comments if you think I have missed something or done something wrong.

RE: A few asset tracker questions

Markus Tacker (he/him) — Tue, 16 Mar 2021 16:24:16 GMT

[quote userid="69265" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/72683/a-few-asset-tracker-questions/299930#299930"]I have tried V2 but have problems with the AWS, the AWS part is a massive headache for this project[/quote]

If you have time I would greatly appreciate if you could give some insights on what specifically you don't like, or what could be improved to help you in your current situation.

RE: A few asset tracker questions

billywalton — Mon, 15 Mar 2021 17:05:52 GMT

Firstly, thanks for this, a really informative post.

I have tried V2 but have problems with the AWS, the AWS part is a massive headache for this project

My client's requirement is to sample 8 channels of ADC at a variable rate, maximum 10Hz, As low power as possible.

So, assuming 2 bytes per sample, 1.6K every 10 secs or 9.6K every minute

If the LTE signal is lost, then I have to store the data until I can get a connection and upload it (am fitting the SDCARD for this I guess)

I like the provisioning and FOTA offered by nRFCloud, its neat, clean and easy to implement

But the sampled data does not necessarily need to pass through the cloud (as I read somewhere there is a 1M transaction limit or something?)

I have the SAADC ports running, and modified the env_senser to test it, all looks good.

I only want to use the 9160 part.

The client is happy to use webhooks or MQTT to accept the data into their database, nice and simple.

So could you suggest how you may go about this type of implementation?

Option 1, Use nRFCloud for provisioning, FOTA and sample data transactions

Option 2, Use nRFCloud for provisioning and FOTA, but for the sample data, use an HTTP POST method to an external fixed IP server (directly to the database).

Option 3, A better option which I have missed.

Thanks again for your help

Billy

RE: A few asset tracker questions

JONATHAN LL — Mon, 15 Mar 2021 14:57:41 GMT

There are some improvements in V2 that we do recommend and in theory it is easier to implement custom use cases as the design is more modular.

That said

[quote user=""]If using the nRF Cloud, and a custom env_sensor, what's the maximum length databuf that can be posted in one go?[/quote]

the data buffer can be adjusted, but for one transmit 10K with dynamically allocated date by sending pointer + length. you can allocate heap or stack.

[quote user=""]If a cloud post fails because it can't connect or no signal, does it queue the data for retry or just drops it?[/quote]

Data is being buffered and will be uploaded in correct order, however there is a limit to the amount of data that can be stored
https://developer.nordicsemi.com/nRF_Connect_SDK/doc/latest/nrf/applications/asset_tracker_v2/README.html#data-buffers

[quote user=""]Is it using the SAADC to monitor the battery anywhere?[/quote]

No, not in any of the examples at the moment.
In the cat tracker -> there is a get_voltage_levelf function. And the way its done in Asset tracker V2 is request data from modem.

Regards,
Jonathan

RE: A few asset tracker questions

billywalton — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 13:12:36 GMT

Hi,

The first version is the one I have running, but could change if needed

RE: A few asset tracker questions

JONATHAN LL — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 13:11:13 GMT

What Asset tracker version are you looking at ?

Assetracker
or
Assetracker V2

Regards,
Jonathan