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<?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/cfs-file/__key/system/syndication/rss.xsl" media="screen"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:slash="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/slash/" xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"><channel><title>How to evaluate GPS sensitivity of nRF9160 if using active antenna?</title><link>https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/78023/how-to-evaluate-gps-sensitivity-of-nrf9160-if-using-active-antenna</link><description>Dear Devzone, 
 At the moment, We do not have methods to measure the GPS sensitivity of our products based on nRF9160. 
 We are using an active antenna with LNA gain 16dB, NF 1dB. 
 The Schematic for the GPS part is like below. 
 
 We apply a Simulated</description><dc:language>en-US</dc:language><generator>Telligent Community 13</generator><lastBuildDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2021 08:58:57 GMT</lastBuildDate><atom:link rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" href="https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/78023/how-to-evaluate-gps-sensitivity-of-nrf9160-if-using-active-antenna" /><item><title>RE: How to evaluate GPS sensitivity of nRF9160 if using active antenna?</title><link>https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/thread/325662?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2021 08:58:57 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">137ad170-7792-4731-bb38-c0d22fbe4515:7142838e-8670-4046-a982-fe27afa7b3b4</guid><dc:creator>JONATHAN LL</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;Additional info:&lt;br /&gt;Recommendation to use -100dBm &amp;quot;GPS&amp;quot; (in this test CW) signal level is to verify end-product design (noise from LEDs, active ICs, DCDCs, other routing, etc.) is not causing noise leaking into nRF91 GPS input and issues to GPS performance (typical issue in end-products). If GPS signal level would be high in testing, noise from aforementioned sources might not cause issues but in real life field situation as GPS signal levels are typically low, issue would became visible.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For simplified GPS sensitivity (alike) testing CW SNR test can be used, where only CW signal generator is needed. See&lt;span&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Fnwp_034%2FWP%2Fnwp_034%2Fnwp_034_nonsignal_gps.html&amp;amp;cp=2_0_7_3_2_4_0_1_2" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"&gt;https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Fnwp_034%2FWP%2Fnwp_034%2Fnwp_034_nonsignal_gps.html&amp;amp;cp=2_0_7_3_2_4_0_1_2&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;for CW SNR test. CW signal generator can be connected directly to nRF91 GPS pin at e.g. -100dBm level, then expected SNR is as in plot &amp;quot;No Ext-LNA&amp;quot;.&amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;img src="https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/resized-image/__size/320x240/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/4/pastedimage1629363526766v1.png" alt=" " /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span&gt;For real GPS sensitivity testing signal generator capable of GPS constellation is needed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Regards,&lt;br /&gt;Jonathan&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: How to evaluate GPS sensitivity of nRF9160 if using active antenna?</title><link>https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/thread/325021?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2021 07:43:19 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">137ad170-7792-4731-bb38-c0d22fbe4515:18de7139-d141-46fa-b055-5b2e41995ea3</guid><dc:creator>JONATHAN LL</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;Hi Ngoc.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The feedback from the expert on your case:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span&gt;Having a look at the schematic one relatively easy modification could be tried: Remove the R47 connecting onboard LNA as there is a risk that the thermal noise rise at point between R47 and C19 with amount of onboard LNA gain (if active), thus decreasing SNR (or C/N0) at RFIC&amp;#39;s GPS input. Active antenna gain of 16dB may not over come the risen thermal noise at the point in question. Another option is to disable onboard LNA by SW-control, but it may not be as good solution as removing R47 due to LNA output circuit still loading the external active antenna path.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span&gt;Non-signaling CW test (positive SNR test) is mainly meant for production to verify HW connections validity, but it can be used for RFHW debugging as well with given test signal and GPS SNR limit recommendations in documentation.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Edit:&lt;br /&gt;Update/correction on my previous comments: I was too quick to talk about onboard external LNA, it looks like not being there, but filter&amp;nbsp;only instead (No onboard ext-LNA??). Then in this case comment &amp;quot;removing R47&amp;quot; should improve the sensitivity.&amp;nbsp;Also It&amp;#39;s good to keep in mind that PS&amp;#39;s GPS sensitivity figure apply when external LNA with NF 2dB&amp;nbsp;max and gain 16dB min from LNA input to SIP&amp;#39;s GPS input, i.e. conducted measurement directly at external LNA (with mentioned specs) input.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Regards,&lt;br /&gt;Jonathan&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: How to evaluate GPS sensitivity of nRF9160 if using active antenna?</title><link>https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/thread/324374?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2021 07:22:49 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">137ad170-7792-4731-bb38-c0d22fbe4515:88284ed4-2dbf-42a0-a8a9-20b5138674c9</guid><dc:creator>Ngoc Nguyen</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;Dear Jonathan,&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thank you for answering my question, and consolidating my knowlege.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;However, I still do not know how to measure and confirm that our device could reach GPS sensitivity as specified in&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/topic/ps_nrf9160/gps.html#overview"&gt;infocenter.nordicsemi.com/.../gps.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;By the way, I am quite confused In the case of nonsignaling mode as guided in&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Fps_nrf9160%2Fgps.html&amp;amp;anchor=overview,"&gt;https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Fps_nrf9160%2Fgps.html&amp;amp;anchor=overview,&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;img src="https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/resized-image/__size/320x240/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/4/pastedimage1628666523440v1.png" alt=" " /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Moreover, why is t&lt;span&gt;he recommended signal level for&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a title="A satellite-based radio navigation system that provides its users with accurate location and time information over the globe." href="https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/topic/nwp_034/dita_common/glossary/glossary.html#gps"&gt;&lt;dfn class="term abbreviated-form"&gt;GPS&lt;/dfn&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span&gt;&amp;nbsp;mode testing -100 dBm?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span&gt;Brs,&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span&gt;Ngoc Nguyen&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: How to evaluate GPS sensitivity of nRF9160 if using active antenna?</title><link>https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/thread/324155?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2021 08:33:40 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">137ad170-7792-4731-bb38-c0d22fbe4515:0701d124-d958-44bc-a051-91111180c461</guid><dc:creator>JONATHAN LL</dc:creator><description>[quote user="Ngoc Nguyen"]And in my case, Could I refer&amp;nbsp;that the sensitivity of the device is -129dBm -16dB (LNA gain) = -145dBm?[/quote]
&lt;p&gt;No, sensitivity is not defined like that. Please see&lt;span&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/topic/ps_nrf9160/gps.html#overview" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"&gt;https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/topic/ps_nrf9160/gps.html#overview&amp;nbsp;&lt;/a&gt;for GPS sensitivity of nRF9160.&amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span&gt;Regarding external LNA, the purpose of it is to compensate/minimize the impact of RF chain&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em&gt;after&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span&gt;&amp;nbsp;the external LNA itself, i.e. minimize the negative impact of any lossy elements in RF chain such as BPF (recommended), RF routing itself, possible test connectors etc., and noise figure of nRF9160 itself. How the physics go, is defined by Friis formula;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;img src="https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/resized-image/__size/320x240/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/4/pastedimage1628584292641v3.png" alt=" " /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span&gt;From formula you can see, the external LNA&amp;#39;s noise figure(/factor) (F1) dominates in total noise (Ftotal) as the next elements noise is&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;em&gt;divided&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span&gt;&amp;nbsp;by gain of first element (external LNA gain) i.e. making the relative contribution of rest of elements (F2, F3,..) in RF chain much smaller to total noise.&amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Regards,&lt;br /&gt;Jonathan&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: How to evaluate GPS sensitivity of nRF9160 if using active antenna?</title><link>https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/thread/323953?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2021 10:02:24 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">137ad170-7792-4731-bb38-c0d22fbe4515:b455f810-df9a-4611-92a9-6bcf484eb63d</guid><dc:creator>Ngoc Nguyen</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;Dear Jonathan,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Before I could do some checking steps as you mention, Could you&amp;nbsp;tell me what the expected minimum level is in the case I apply GPS signal directly to GPS pin?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And in my case, Could I refer&amp;nbsp;that the sensitivity of the device is -129dBm -16dB (LNA gain) = -145dBm?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks and regards,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ngoc Nguyen&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: How to evaluate GPS sensitivity of nRF9160 if using active antenna?</title><link>https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/thread/323921?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2021 07:50:01 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">137ad170-7792-4731-bb38-c0d22fbe4515:e6699b08-2283-478a-91d0-49c995d03aa6</guid><dc:creator>JONATHAN LL</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;Hi&amp;nbsp;&lt;span&gt;Ngoc Nguyen,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Would like to understand your setup a bit better:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1)&amp;nbsp;&lt;span&gt;&amp;nbsp;would measure s-parameters between ports P1 and P2 to see impedances and insertion loss (including the RF cable/pigtail connecting to UFL connector - as the connection and/or pigtail cable itself can be very un-robust/non-50ohm)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;img src="https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/resized-image/__size/320x240/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/4/pastedimage1628495241299v1.png" alt=" " /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span&gt;2) could you share waveform details for used &amp;quot;GPS signal&amp;quot;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span&gt;3) also good to check (although least probable problem here) accuracy of GPS generator output level - is it calibrated by power meter or so?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Regards,&lt;br /&gt;Jonathan&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: How to evaluate GPS sensitivity of nRF9160 if using active antenna?</title><link>https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/thread/323275?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2021 10:41:00 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">137ad170-7792-4731-bb38-c0d22fbe4515:e62c1e2c-e69a-43cc-abb1-fdb32c4cd115</guid><dc:creator>JONATHAN LL</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;Hi, our expert on the topic is on varication so I don&amp;#39;t have any news for you as of now, I will update once he is back.&amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sorry for the inconvenience.&amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Regards,&lt;br /&gt;Jonathan&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: How to evaluate GPS sensitivity of nRF9160 if using active antenna?</title><link>https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/thread/322991?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2021 04:14:00 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">137ad170-7792-4731-bb38-c0d22fbe4515:5e1d4ce0-d0fb-42d6-952b-25e3814189fd</guid><dc:creator>Ngoc Nguyen</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;Dear Jonathan,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks for your support. Have you got any news yet?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Brs,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ngoc Nguyen&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item><item><title>RE: How to evaluate GPS sensitivity of nRF9160 if using active antenna?</title><link>https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/thread/322431?ContentTypeID=1</link><pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2021 11:37:42 GMT</pubDate><guid isPermaLink="false">137ad170-7792-4731-bb38-c0d22fbe4515:7f817251-2375-4c2b-8ea9-68173ce8f2c1</guid><dc:creator>JONATHAN LL</dc:creator><description>&lt;p&gt;Hi Ngoc,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I will update you on the matter once i have any news.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Regards,&lt;br /&gt;Jonathan&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div style="clear:both;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description></item></channel></rss>