BLE Mesh on Nrf52832 Event based System on Sleep. Anchor and Tag are Battery Powered.

RE: BLE Mesh on Nrf52832 Event based System on Sleep. Anchor and Tag are Battery Powered.

starkAbhi — Mon, 29 May 2023 09:12:16 GMT

Hi Terje,

Thanks for your support

[quote userid="8164" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/99752/ble-mesh-on-nrf52832-event-based-system-on-sleep-anchor-and-tag-are-battery-powered/427595"]I highly recommend reading up on Bluetooth mesh, in order to understand how the technology works and what are the limitations.[/quote]

I am actually reading more about mesh network in BLE Stack.

[quote userid="8164" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/99752/ble-mesh-on-nrf52832-event-based-system-on-sleep-anchor-and-tag-are-battery-powered/427595"]In addition, relay nodes can relay messages at a rate of several tens of packets per second. Your relay nodes (the anchors) should be able to handle the throughput coming from your 2 000 tags, although there may be some packet collisions which can be handled in several ways, for instance:[/quote]

it would be nice to have Sync in tags to handle collision. let see.

Regards

Abhishek

RE: BLE Mesh on Nrf52832 Event based System on Sleep. Anchor and Tag are Battery Powered.

tesc — Thu, 25 May 2023 16:09:16 GMT

Hi,

[quote user="starkAbhi"]What are the default values of data Rate in BLE Mesh Network?[/quote]

There is no default data rate, as it all depends on the size and topology of the network, the amount of messages sent from the devices on the network, and the number of hops those messages are allowed to take.

[quote user="starkAbhi"]I did not get it. Could you please explain it with some examples? [/quote]

Messages in Bluetooth mesh can be up to a couple of hundred bytes maximum, but then get divided into several packets. A single packet can hold 11 bytes payload. Each node (each device in a network) can send a maximum of 10 packets per second. Your tags are well within this limitation.

In addition, relay nodes can relay messages at a rate of several tens of packets per second. Your relay nodes (the anchors) should be able to handle the throughput coming from your 2 000 tags, although there may be some packet collisions which can be handled in several ways, for instance:

Accept that some messages gets dropped.
Retransmit messages.
When sending a message, the value from the previous message (or from the N previous messages) to that message. Values then arrive late, but you get the full data series.

Which solution is the best relies on your requirements.

I highly recommend reading up on Bluetooth mesh, in order to understand how the technology works and what are the limitations.

Regards,
Terje

RE: BLE Mesh on Nrf52832 Event based System on Sleep. Anchor and Tag are Battery Powered.

starkAbhi — Thu, 25 May 2023 10:29:58 GMT

Hi Terje,

[quote userid="8164" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/99752/ble-mesh-on-nrf52832-event-based-system-on-sleep-anchor-and-tag-are-battery-powered/427260"]There is no setting for data rate in Bluetooth mesh.[/quote]

What are the default values of data Rate in BLE Mesh Network?

[quote userid="8164" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/99752/ble-mesh-on-nrf52832-event-based-system-on-sleep-anchor-and-tag-are-battery-powered/427260"]There is a limitation of maximum 100 network PDUs per 10 second sliding window, which limits the theoretical throughput out from one node to somewhere above 100 bytes per second. This limitation is from the specification itself, and the purpose is to keep the number of packages sent reasonably low for reducing the risk of congestion.[/quote]

I did not get it. Could you please explain it with some examples?

Regards,

Abhishek

RE: BLE Mesh on Nrf52832 Event based System on Sleep. Anchor and Tag are Battery Powered.

tesc — Wed, 24 May 2023 13:40:31 GMT

Hi,

[quote user="starkAbhi"]It is solved by Pristine build. [/quote]

I am happy to hear that you solved it. Pristine build may be needed sometimes, especially when changing configurations.

[quote user="starkAbhi"]How can set/change data rate of BLE Mesh Tag and Anchor?[/quote]

There is no setting for data rate in Bluetooth mesh. There is a restriction of data rate out from one node (see next paragraph) but apart from that the limitation comes from factors such as packet collisions and congestion.

There is a limitation of maximum 100 network PDUs per 10 second sliding window, which limits the theoretical throughput out from one node to somewhere above 100 bytes per second. This limitation is from the specification itself, and the purpose is to keep the number of packages sent reasonably low for reducing the risk of congestion.

Regards,
Terje

RE: BLE Mesh on Nrf52832 Event based System on Sleep. Anchor and Tag are Battery Powered.

starkAbhi — Wed, 24 May 2023 09:48:45 GMT

Hi Terje,

[quote userid="8164" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/99752/ble-mesh-on-nrf52832-event-based-system-on-sleep-anchor-and-tag-are-battery-powered/426987"]What are the Kconfig warnings referred to in the build log?[/quote]

It is solved by Pristine build.

How can set/change data rate of BLE Mesh Tag and Anchor? My requirement is to have fast data transmission between anchor and tags. Data exist in air for minimum time.

Regards

Abhishek

RE: BLE Mesh on Nrf52832 Event based System on Sleep. Anchor and Tag are Battery Powered.

tesc — Tue, 23 May 2023 14:09:05 GMT

Hi,

What are the Kconfig warnings referred to in the build log?

Regards,
Terje

RE: BLE Mesh on Nrf52832 Event based System on Sleep. Anchor and Tag are Battery Powered.

starkAbhi — Mon, 22 May 2023 11:50:47 GMT

Hi Terje,

[quote userid="8164" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/99752/ble-mesh-on-nrf52832-event-based-system-on-sleep-anchor-and-tag-are-battery-powered/426487"]With three thousand tags, there is not much bandwidth in a Bluetooth mesh network for relaying all of that to a gateway. What throughput do you expect from each tag? That is - how often and how much data is the tag producing?[/quote]

Tags: Sleep(2,2uA) -> Wakeup-> Transmit Message(1 byte)-> Sleep periodically in interval of 5 min. Tags are Battery Powered. how set high data rate so that data in air is minimum?

[quote userid="8164" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/99752/ble-mesh-on-nrf52832-event-based-system-on-sleep-anchor-and-tag-are-battery-powered/426487"]

You can add one of the CONFIG_BT_CTRL_TX_PWR_ kconfigs to your project configuration file (prj.conf), for instance:

CONFIG_BT_CTRL_TX_PWR_PLUS_4=y

[/quote]

Error:

Regards

Abhishek

RE: BLE Mesh on Nrf52832 Event based System on Sleep. Anchor and Tag are Battery Powered.

tesc — Mon, 22 May 2023 09:32:50 GMT

Hi,

[quote user="starkAbhi"]

Tags: 3000 units

Anchors: 150 - 200 units

[/quote]

With three thousand tags, there is not much bandwidth in a Bluetooth mesh network for relaying all of that to a gateway. What throughput do you expect from each tag? That is - how often and how much data is the tag producing?

[quote user="starkAbhi"]I did not understand about front-end Module.[/quote]

A front-end-module (FEM) is an additional component, typically with a power amplifier (PA) for higher TX power and a low-noise amplifier (LNA) for increased RX gain. See e.g. nRF21540, which is an FEM. For now I think it is enough that you know that this technology exists, so that in the future you may choose to look further into it if needed. Generally a FEM may increase radio range, at the cost of increased power consumption and a slight reduction in signal-to-noise ratio.

[quote user="starkAbhi"]Are there any way to set or change Tx power between 0 to 4dbm of BLE in SDK ? API or Function to call in Zephyr /Nrf connect SDK?[/quote]

You can add one of the CONFIG_BT_CTRL_TX_PWR_ kconfigs to your project configuration file (prj.conf), for instance:

CONFIG_BT_CTRL_TX_PWR_PLUS_4=y

Regards,
Terje

RE: BLE Mesh on Nrf52832 Event based System on Sleep. Anchor and Tag are Battery Powered.

starkAbhi — Wed, 17 May 2023 05:38:05 GMT

Hi Terje,

[quote userid="8164" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/99752/ble-mesh-on-nrf52832-event-based-system-on-sleep-anchor-and-tag-are-battery-powered/425880"]Which SDK are you using? I see you tagged the case with both nRF Connect SDK and nRF5 SDK for Mesh. Please have a look at our nRF Connect SDK and nRF5 SDK statement. nRF Connect SDK has support for Bluetooth mesh, and is the place where new development will happen. nRF5 SDK (and nRF5 SDK for Mesh) is in maintenance mode.[/quote]

We using Nrf Connect Extension in VS Code with Zephyr OS build v3.2.99-ncs2 and Nrf connect SDK 2.3.0.

[quote userid="8164" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/99752/ble-mesh-on-nrf52832-event-based-system-on-sleep-anchor-and-tag-are-battery-powered/425880"]Bluetooth mesh uses managed flooding. This means there are mechanisms in place for controlling the rate of the flood, to prevent congestion and overload of single nodes. You will still see some limits for throughput. How many sensor do you have, and what throughput do you expect from each sensor?[/quote]

Tags: 3000 units

Anchors: 150 - 200 units

[quote userid="8164" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/99752/ble-mesh-on-nrf52832-event-based-system-on-sleep-anchor-and-tag-are-battery-powered/425880"] front-end module,[/quote]

I did not understand about front-end Module. Are you suggesting me any other module to use? because currently i am using nrf52832 as Tag and Anchors.

[quote userid="8164" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/99752/ble-mesh-on-nrf52832-event-based-system-on-sleep-anchor-and-tag-are-battery-powered/425880"]The nRF52832 has maximum TX power of 4 dBm. More can be achieved through use of a front-end module, but please note that some front-end modules give higher TX power than what is allowed in some jurisdictions.[/quote]

Are there any way to set or change Tx power between 0 to 4dbm of BLE in SDK ? API or Function to call in Zephyr /Nrf connect SDK?

We want to configure TX power of BLE antenna according to Requirement of Application, Mesh Example: https://developer.nordicsemi.com/nRF_Connect_SDK/doc/2.3.0/zephyr/samples/bluetooth/mesh/README.html

Regards

Abhishek

RE: BLE Mesh on Nrf52832 Event based System on Sleep. Anchor and Tag are Battery Powered.

tesc — Tue, 16 May 2023 13:29:01 GMT

Hi,

[quote user="starkAbhi"]In conclusion, Continuous reception lead to more current consumption in mesh. are their any API or Function to set transmission Power dbm?[/quote]

The nRF52832 has maximum TX power of 4 dBm. More can be achieved through use of a front-end module, but please note that some front-end modules give higher TX power than what is allowed in some jurisdictions.

Which SDK are you using? I see you tagged the case with both nRF Connect SDK and nRF5 SDK for Mesh. Please have a look at our nRF Connect SDK and nRF5 SDK statement. nRF Connect SDK has support for Bluetooth mesh, and is the place where new development will happen. nRF5 SDK (and nRF5 SDK for Mesh) is in maintenance mode.

[quote user="starkAbhi"]are their any repeat of messages protection in Mesh?[/quote]

Bluetooth mesh uses managed flooding. This means there are mechanisms in place for controlling the rate of the flood, to prevent congestion and overload of single nodes. You will still see some limits for throughput. How many sensor do you have, and what throughput do you expect from each sensor?

Please note that Wednesday and Thursday this week are both public holidays in Norway. I will also be out-of-office on Friday, so expect my next answer next week. I am sorry for any convenience.

Regards,
Terje

RE: BLE Mesh on Nrf52832 Event based System on Sleep. Anchor and Tag are Battery Powered.

starkAbhi — Tue, 16 May 2023 05:24:54 GMT

Hi tesc ,

My other Ticket regarding

Tags: Sleep -> Wakeup-> Transmit Message-> Sleep periodically in interval of 5 min. Tags are Battery Powered. how can i achieve sleep mechanism with nrf52832 soc? system off example only put whole mesh tag in Deep sleep. are there any example in which it starts mesh -> send data-> back to sleep with ~ 2.2uA current consumption?

[quote userid="8164" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/99752/ble-mesh-on-nrf52832-event-based-system-on-sleep-anchor-and-tag-are-battery-powered/425670"]If the data must be relayed from anchor to anchor before reaching the gateway, then the anchors must be Bluetooth mesh relay nodes, which means they must be constantly in RX. This is by specification, and this is how the relay nodes are able to reliably relay messages over the network. There really isn't any way to change that behavior. Relay nodes will constantly consume around 6 mA.[/quote]

In conclusion, Continuous reception lead to more current consumption in mesh. are their any API or Function to set transmission Power dbm?

[quote userid="8164" url="~/f/nordic-q-a/99752/ble-mesh-on-nrf52832-event-based-system-on-sleep-anchor-and-tag-are-battery-powered/425670"]I do not quite understand what you mean by that. Can you please elaborate?[/quote]

All Tags are sending message to gateway though Anchor. Anchor act as Relay. All each Anchor want to transmit their message to Gateway. One tag range in Between multiple Anchors. it become cluster of messages. does this lead to flooding of messages on Anchor side? are their any repeat of messages protection in Mesh?

Regards

Abhishek

RE: BLE Mesh on Nrf52832 Event based System on Sleep. Anchor and Tag are Battery Powered.

tesc — Mon, 15 May 2023 14:32:24 GMT

Hi,

If the data must be relayed from anchor to anchor before reaching the gateway, then the anchors must be Bluetooth mesh relay nodes, which means they must be constantly in RX. This is by specification, and this is how the relay nodes are able to reliably relay messages over the network. There really isn't any way to change that behavior. Relay nodes will constantly consume around 6 mA.

Bluetooth mesh relies on having a backbone of relay nodes that are always on, for transferring messages over the network. Low power nodes (LPN) can save power and only turn on the radio when they need to send something or check for incoming messages. Relay nodes, on the other hand, must be always on.

One pattern, is if you have relay nodes (always on) listening for advertisements from beacons. Then the beacons can have even lower power than LPN, but they cannot receive any information from the mesh network itself. This is what we do for the Bluetooth: Mesh Silvair EnOcean example, which listens for advertisements from a specific switch which is powered solely by the button presses. Please note that the listener is a normal mesh node, always in RX, just as relay nodes. It is not an LPN.

[quote user=""]Problem in Flooding messages on Anchor side: How can i prevent from flood of messages ?[/quote]

I do not quite understand what you mean by that. Can you please elaborate?

Regards,
Terje