Managing versions of nRF Connect SDK/9160 Modem FIrmware/Modem Certifications

[Cody]

Hello Nordic,

I had some questions regarding the management of versions of various components during application development (nRF Connect SDK/9160 Modem Firmware/Modem Certifications).
I notice that when Nordic officially tags and releases versions of nRF Connect SDK, they include the "Supported modem firmware" section in the release notes.

1) How strict is the "Supported modem firmware"? Does this mean that there exists only one supported modem firmware version for any given nRF Connect SDK release? (for example, if my application was built off of nRF Connect SDK v1.2.0 but the device is still running modem firmware version v1.1.0, is this an unsupported configuration?)

2) How does the application developer juggle this with the newly released "Modem Certifications" page (https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Fps_nrf9160%2Fgps.html&cp=2_0_0_7), as it doesn't look like there is a solution if the application developer wants to support Verizon, Vodafone and Deutsche Telekom.

3) From a separate DevZone ticket, Heidi states, "We intend to support all certified modem firmware for the lifetime of the product.". What classifies as a "certified modem firmware"? If Nordic intends to support all certified modem firmware for the lifetime of the product it would make sense that the new nRF Connect SDK releases support the most recent "patch/minor" release from each certified modem firmware release? Unless this is not the case and for any fielded products that are running v1.0.x modem firmware, any new application development has to be done on nRF Connect SDK v1.0.0?

4) With the inability to perform FOTA updates between "major" versions of the modem firmware (ie 1.0.0 to 1.1.0), if the device needs to support Deutsche Telekom (for example), it sounds like there is no path forward to get this device working in the field?

[Øyvind]

1) How strict is the "Supported modem firmware"? Does this mean that there exists only one supported modem firmware version for any given nRF Connect SDK release? (for example, if my application was built off of nRF Connect SDK v1.2.0 but the device is still running modem firmware version v1.1.0, is this an unsupported configuration?)

 No, this should be supported AFAIK. But I will investigate and find a complete answer.

 

2) How does the application developer juggle this with the newly released "Modem Certifications" page (https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Fps_nrf9160%2Fgps.html&cp=2_0_0_7), as it doesn't look like there is a solution if the application developer wants to support Verizon, Vodafone and Deutsche Telekom.

 I'm not sure what you mean, can you please elaborate? I'm assuming you posted the wrong link (GPS) and was pointing to this link

https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcomp_matrix_nrf9160%2FCOMP%2Fnrf9160%2Fnrf9160_operator_certifications.html. 

 

3) From a separate DevZone ticket, Heidi states, "We intend to support all certified modem firmware for the lifetime of the product.". What classifies as a "certified modem firmware"? If Nordic intends to support all certified modem firmware for the lifetime of the product it would make sense that the new nRF Connect SDK releases support the most recent "patch/minor" release from each certified modem firmware release? Unless this is not the case and for any fielded products that are running v1.0.x modem firmware, any new application development has to be done on nRF Connect SDK v1.0.0?

 Can you please provide a link to the DevZone ticket? I will get back to you with an answer to this 

 

4) With the inability to perform FOTA updates between "major" versions of the modem firmware (ie 1.0.0 to 1.1.0), if the device needs to support Deutsche Telekom (for example), it sounds like there is no path forward to get this device working in the field?

 I will get back to you with an answer to this 

Kind regards,
Øyvind

[Cody]

For 2) if we are developing our solution for global presence, and want to support Verizon in the USA, and Deutsche Telekom overseas, there is currently no modem firmware to support this configuration on LTE-M? (also, yes I posted the wrong link, the link that you provided was the intended link)

For 3) The Nordic DevZone ticket that I am referencing is found here: devzone.nordicsemi.com/.../nrf9160-modem-fw-fota-updates

Thanks,
Cody

[Øyvind]

Hi Cody, 

sorry for the slow response on this. I needed to forward the question to our Product Management team. Will answer as soon as possible.

Kind regards,
Øyvind

[Øyvind]

Hi Cody, 

My apologies for the slow response to this ticket. I did not get a response on my initial forward and will need to go through another channel. Please bear with me!

Kind regards,
Øyvind

[Øyvind]

Hi Cody, 

I finally have some answers for you

1) How strict is the "Supported modem firmware"? Does this mean that there exists only one supported modem firmware version for any given nRF Connect SDK release? (for example, if my application was built off of nRF Connect SDK v1.2.0 but the device is still running modem firmware version v1.1.0, is this an unsupported configuration?)

 In general carriers do not care too much what NCS version the Application side runs. On the other hand in some cases it does matter - when some piece of software is part of the certification we get from a carrier. Currently this "NCS + Zephyr" version pairing with a modemFW version concerns US carriers.

2) How does the application developer juggle this with the newly released "Modem Certifications" page (https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Fps_nrf9160%2Fgps.html&cp=2_0_0_7), as it doesn't look like there is a solution if the application developer wants to support Verizon, Vodafone and Deutsche Telekom.

 True, however, roaming cases are a slightly different issue. In practice it is impossible to have a truly global firmware version.

3) From a separate DevZone ticket, Heidi states, "We intend to support all certified modem firmware for the lifetime of the product.". What classifies as a "certified modem firmware"? If Nordic intends to support all certified modem firmware for the lifetime of the product it would make sense that the new nRF Connect SDK releases support the most recent "patch/minor" release from each certified modem firmware release? Unless this is not the case and for any fielded products that are running v1.0.x modem firmware, any new application development has to be done on nRF Connect SDK v1.0.0?

 What classifies as a "certified modem firmware"? -> depends on a carrier and the scope of its certification. For example, in DT case the certified modem FW is stated in the "Mobile network operator certifications" matrix. In Verizon case that is the modem FW and the NCS tag that was used to build the LWM2M carrier library and the carrier library that passed the Motive cert. So e.g. Verizon really is, due our SW architecture, modemFW + specific NCS tag, LWM2M carrier lib used with that cert + everything that comes with that west.yaml that went through & passed the final step i.e. Motive lab tests.

4) With the inability to perform FOTA updates between "major" versions of the modem firmware (ie 1.0.0 to 1.1.0), if the device needs to support Deutsche Telekom (for example), it sounds like there is no path forward to get this device working in the field?

 True. Technically big "jumps" can be done using multiple intermediate FOTA updates but that is not what we want to/will do. 

Let me know if anything is unclear, or if you have any further questions.

Kind regards,
Øyvind

[Cody]

Øyvind,

Thank you for the response, you can view my responses below:

 "In general carriers do not care too much what NCS version the Application side runs. On the other hand in some cases it does matter - when some piece of software is part of the certification we get from a carrier. Currently this "NCS + Zephyr" version pairing with a modemFW version concerns US carriers."

My question pertained more to compatibility between modem firmware version and the nRF Connect SDK, outside of carrier certification. Going back to my example, nRF Connect SDK v1.2.0 pairs with the recommended/supported modem firmware v1.1.1, per the release notes. Per your response, I am still confused regarding the pairing of NCS releases with modem firmware versions - will nRF Connect SDKv1.2.0 work properly with a device running modem firmware v1.0.0 (for example)?

"True, however, roaming cases are a slightly different issue. In practice it is impossible to have a truly global firmware version."

What does Nordic recommend in this case from a development perspective, should I maintain various flavors of firmware when shipping to various parts of the world and/or when different carriers are required?

"True. Technically big "jumps" can be done using multiple intermediate FOTA updates but that is not what we want to/will do. "

What this tells me is that for devices that are already in production and in use out in the field, there may become a time when I may be unable to continue updating the nRF Connect SDK used to build the application and will get stuck on the last supported release for a given modem firmware?

Thanks,
Cody

[Øyvind]

Hi Cody, 

I'm still waiting for answers and have not forgotten about you. Will get back to you ASAP!

-Øyvind

[Øyvind]

Hello, 

My apologies for the long wait for answers. I've got some answers to your follow-up questions. 

Cody said:

My question pertained more to compatibility between modem firmware version and the nRF Connect SDK, outside of carrier certification. Going back to my example, nRF Connect SDK v1.2.0 pairs with the recommended/supported modem firmware v1.1.1, per the release notes. Per your response, I am still confused regarding the pairing of NCS releases with modem firmware versions - will nRF Connect SDKv1.2.0 work properly with a device running modem firmware v1.0.0 (for example)?

 We will work to ensure that the compatibility matrix is up to date at all times, giving all customers a complete overview of what modem version is compatible with what NCS tag.

2) How does the application developer juggle this with the newly released "Modem Certifications" page (https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Fps_nrf9160%2Fgps.html&cp=2_0_0_7), as it doesn't look like there is a solution if the application developer wants to support Verizon, Vodafone and Deutsche Telekom.

• There is a compatibility matrix that shows what Modem release has been certified at which carrier. This is strict. If a customer uses a version that has not been certified then he does not have a certified module. https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Fstruct_nrf91%2Fstruct%2Fnrf9160.html&cp=2_0
• Modem 1.1.X is the Verizon branch. Our aim is to certify every 1.1.X at Verizon and provide a FOTA update. Order is such that first we release and then we start to certify. Compatibility matrix will be updated once a certificate is ready
• Modem 1.2.X is the AT&T branch. Our aim is to certify every 1.2.X at AT&T and provide a FOTA update. Order is such that first we release and then we start to certify. Compatibility matrix will be updated once a certificate is ready

Cody said:

What does Nordic recommend in this case from a development perspective, should I maintain various flavors of firmware when shipping to various parts of the world and/or when different carriers are required?

Until further notice different FW is needed in different regions. We will improve in the future.

3) From a separate DevZone ticket, Heidi states, "We intend to support all certified modem firmware for the lifetime of the product.". What classifies as a "certified modem firmware"? If Nordic intends to support all certified modem firmware for the lifetime of the product it would make sense that the new nRF Connect SDK releases support the most recent "patch/minor" release from each certified modem firmware release? Unless this is not the case and for any fielded products that are running v1.0.x modem firmware, any new application development has to be done on nRF Connect SDK v1.0.0?

 This means:

• 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2 will be maintained as long as there is are customers using these.
• Each bug fix release is tested with the latest and previous NCS

Cody said:

"True. Technically big "jumps" can be done using multiple intermediate FOTA updates but that is not what we want to/will do. "

What this tells me is that for devices that are already in production and in use out in the field, there may become a time when I may be unable to continue updating the nRF Connect SDK used to build the application and will get stuck on the last supported release for a given modem firmware?

 That is true at least for 1.0. We target to keep the latest 1.1 and 1.2 branch releases tested with new NCS. FOTA updates are only between bugfix releases within the same branch.

Kind regards,
Øyvind