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nRF52811 LNA+WiFi maximum power to input

Hello,

We have  product with nRF52811 as Bluetooth receiver and ESP32 as WiFi IC. The ICs have separate antennas, and nRF52811 has LNA with +12 dBm gain connected to antenna input. ESP32 maximum WiFi power into antenna is +10 dBm. 

We used to shut LNA off on WiFi activity to protect the nRF52 input, but a recent update to ESP SDK breaks the WiFi activity GPIO control. We have three possible approaches here:

1) Have LNA always on. In this case, we're not sure if the WiFi + LNA power into nRF52 can exceed 10 dBm absolute maximum. 

2) Have LNA always off. In this case, our product performance is severely degraded. 

3) Use older ESP SDK and live with the bugs in it until a SDK with GPIO control fix is published.

2) and 3) are definitely not ideal, so we'd like to use 1) if we can be sure to not damage the nRF52. 

I'm not a RF engineer, so the first question is: Is it possible that RF energy at +10 dBm in WiFi antenna gets coupled at -2 dBm to Bluetooth antenna? The antennas are a few cm away from each other and I have no intuitive understanding if the worry is reasonable or nor. 

If there is a possibility of the RF overload of nRF, how we can check the actual levels? We do not have a spectrum analyzer which could verify the signal levels at antenna, but if absolutely necessary we could hire a lab to do it.

However, if it is enough to run stress testing by just run LNA always on firmware on couple units for few days and check if BLE performance does not degrade over time we'd prefer to do that.

Any feedback on our issue? e.g. is the radio coupling between 2 antennas practically always worse than -12 dBm, which would mean the concern is not necessary, or can we test the received power in some destructive or non-destructive way without special equipment?

Parents
  • Hello,

    So i would ask the ESP32 SDK developers to address the issue as fast as possible. 


    Is it possible that RF energy at +10 dBm in WiFi antenna gets coupled at -2 dBm to Bluetooth antenna? The antennas are a few cm away from each other and I have no intuitive understanding if the worry is reasonable or nor.

    Yes, this is a possibility that it might happen. Cant say without measuring on the device. 


    So if more than 10dBm gest coupled to the radio or the LNA it can take damage. And living the LNA on all the time could also damage the nRF. 

    To be sure that you keep the performance you al ready have i would sick to an older ESP SDK, if not then what is the option to do some HW changes on the device. Including a RF switch that that can be used to disconnect the NRF and or the LNA would solve the current issue.  


    Do you have any timeline on when the bug will be addressed by ESP SDK developers? 

    Regards,
    Jonathan

Reply
  • Hello,

    So i would ask the ESP32 SDK developers to address the issue as fast as possible. 


    Is it possible that RF energy at +10 dBm in WiFi antenna gets coupled at -2 dBm to Bluetooth antenna? The antennas are a few cm away from each other and I have no intuitive understanding if the worry is reasonable or nor.

    Yes, this is a possibility that it might happen. Cant say without measuring on the device. 


    So if more than 10dBm gest coupled to the radio or the LNA it can take damage. And living the LNA on all the time could also damage the nRF. 

    To be sure that you keep the performance you al ready have i would sick to an older ESP SDK, if not then what is the option to do some HW changes on the device. Including a RF switch that that can be used to disconnect the NRF and or the LNA would solve the current issue.  


    Do you have any timeline on when the bug will be addressed by ESP SDK developers? 

    Regards,
    Jonathan

Children
  • So i would ask the ESP32 SDK developers to address the issue as fast as possible. 

    Let's hope this gets priority.

    To be sure that you keep the performance you al ready have i would sick to an older ESP SDK, if not then what is the option to do some HW changes on the device. Including a RF switch that that can be used to disconnect the NRF and or the LNA would solve the current issue.  

    HW changes are not feasible for the devices already in the field, so we need a SW solution. 

    How would RF Switch help us in this case? We have GPIO control to LNA both from nRF52 and ESP32, so if nRF52 has any kind of "RF overload" warning signal we could force the LNA off to protect the nRF52. Core issue however is that we have no way of knowing when the WiFi is active to control the LNA or any other external switch. 

    Do you have any timeline on when the bug will be addressed by ESP SDK developers? 

    No, we try to get a firm answer on this.

    Thanks,

    Otso

  • Otso Jousimaa said:
    Core issue however is that we have no way of knowing when the WiFi is active to control the LNA or any other external switch. 

    Then this is indeed a difficult issue and a switch would not help in that case. 

    I would stick to the old SDK where there radios still can work as intended. You can run som tests on a handfull of the devices to see if there is any issues wit LNA always on, it is a bit on the risky side in my opinion, so it is not something i can recommend, and in the long run i would expect to se more issues on devices configured wit the LNA always on. 

    Keeping the LNA off could be the better option of 2 and 3 if the range is not that badly impacted 

    Otso Jousimaa said:
    so if nRF52 has any kind of "RF overload" warning signal we could force the LNA off to protect the nRF52

    No, dont have a feature like this. 

    Regards,
    Jonathan

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