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Influence of a WLAN AP in the near of a BLE Scanner device?

Hello

We try to measure package loss if BLE Advertising & BLE Mesh is used in a congested environment.
(WLAN accesspoint has MIMO, 18dBm, heavy data transmitting with psping from/to an Notebook)

Is there a rule how near a (N)-WLAN Accesspoint is allowed to be placed to the BLE Scanner Device?
Or is there a calculation or table between distance to Accesspoint and signal/noise change inside the receiver (hope this is the right wording).

Thanks,
Lukas

Parents
  • Hi,

    I am not aware of any standardized tests that specify any specific user scenario setups no. In general manufacturers have their own requirements and tests procedures, and for instance may based on the results specify that the product should be placed at certain distances or orientation to other 2.4GHz equipment. In general any interference source will impact other equipment that may transmit at the same time, since any interference source impact the SNR, they in essence will impact either the latency or the achievable distance between two or more units that are communicating. 

  • Hello Kenneth

    Sorry that i am not well trained in the right wording.

    The background: 

    a) 
    We have a testsetup in our open space office. If we have holiday and no notebook is using WLAN then the reachable distance is measured and its good.
    If we have a working day and many notebooks are active working with WLAN then the node which are reachable at a holiday are now no longer reachable. If we check then we see a reduction of the distance to 50% (!!)

    We can`t understand why this happens...

    b)
    Next test:
    From one Nordic node (software is casamib) to other Nordic node we transmit packages as fast as possible. In a clean  environment (no other is sending on 2.4GHz) we see very less package drops (90 to 100%) of the package arrive at the receiver. The distance between the nodes is around 25m (but that is around the maximum bechause the node are inside a luminaire with plastic around and some metal in the near of the node.

    If we now place an WLAN Accesspoint near the Nordic receiver device and start transfering WLAN data then the Packages which arrive the scanner Node drops dramatically. This is ok und understandable if the WLAN Frequency allocation (20MHz, OQFM, N-Type, fixed frequency) is overlapping the BLE Channel but we see the package drop on all selected wlan channels.

    Eg. WLAN Cannel 1 is far away from 2480 MHz but wee see that only 35% packages arrive the receiver.

    Overview (Pakets OK in Percent)
    WLAN -MHz 2401 MHz 2440 MHz 2480 MHz
    2412 Kanal 1 41% 38% 35%
    2432 Kanal 5 27% 15% 39%
    2442 Kanal 7 35% 38% 35%
    2452 Kanal 9 33% 37% 30%
    2472 Kanal 13 30% 25% 15%
    33% 31% 31%

    c)
    Next test:
    Now we measure how good is the Nordic nrf receiver (RX) in suppressing strong signals.

    * Receiver develboard is reading background RSSI on Channel 19 (this should be 2440 MHz)
    * Sender develboard is sending continuous carrier on one defined channel (we start with channel 12)
    * Resulting RSSI on receiver board is identified
    * Sender is changed to next channel (now channel 13) 
    * Resulting RSSI on receiver board is identified
    * ... this is done for channel 12 to 26

    Here is the result

    Kanal  / RSSI Wert

    Develboard OFF /  101

    Kanal 12 / 99

    Kanal 13 / 98

    Kanal 14 / 96

    Kanal 15 / 96

    Kanal 16 / 92

    Kanal 17 / 90

    Kanal 18 / 76

    Kanal 19 / 36   

    Kanal 20 / 87

    Kanal 21 / 88

    Kanal 22 / 89

    Kanal 23 / 91

    Kanal 24 / 92

    Kanal 25 / 92

    Kanal 26 / 94

     

    -----

    Is my interpretation correct:

    What i expect was that the RX "BandPassFilter" (what is the correct wording) is only 2 MHz wide. Any signal below or above that 2 MHz is filtered away. 

    What is now see is that  the RX "BandPassFilter" is not selective enough to suppress strong wireless signals on other channels. This means that if a WLAN AP is in the near of an nrf device then this receiver "hears" a nois which is around  10dbm higher as without WLAN. This further means, that the resulting distance is reduced massively.

    Thanks,
    Lukas

  • You can find the RX selectivity and RX intermodulation values in the datasheet:
    http://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/topic/com.nordic.infocenter.nrf52840.ps/radio.html?cp=2_0_0_5_19_14_5#unique_1352515260 

    These tables describe how much higher an interference source can be relative to the desired channel without causing the packet to be lost. 

    My recommendations are:

    - make guidelines on how to place the equipment away from for instance WIFI
    - make sure that you have optimized your design, for instance both verified output power and tuned the antennas to 50ohm nominal impedance (this must be done in actual casing). Because for every 1dB you may loose here, it will directly influence the coexistence performance.

    Best regards,
    Kenneth

     

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