Need help on NRF9160 Development of Hardware & firmware

[Chandra2sekhar]

hello,

we are developing a product, in which it needs BLE, LTE,GPS. we are planning to choose Nrf9160 for LTE & GPS. we need following support during development

1. what is the best suitable antenna for NRF9160 for both LTE & GPS, we don't  have hardcore RF expertise, so we need help on this , we have some flex antennas 

  a.https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/antennas/2072350100

 b.https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/antennas/2065600100

 can above antennas be used by just connecting via UFL connector with out any matching components etc , or any smaller chip antenna available

2.what is the smallest size PCB we can have when NRF9160 with including antennas . remaining BLE & power circuits we can manage

3. we are not interested in 2 firmware for 9160 separately and ble separately. so we are planning to choose BLE processor as main MCU , and NRF9160 will be used with out any custom firmware, so AT command based. so any suggestions on this

4.  our goal will be to extract the GPS from 9160 to BLE main mcu, and then send it via MQTT. does NRF9160 supports MQTT, any code examples via AT. with out implementing MQTT protocol on BLE main mCU, does NRF9160 supports any quick command. as of now, only publishing, in future might need subscribe also.

5. Does NRF9160 modules selling in online have embedded sim enabled, if so how to activate it with carrier.

6. lets say, if LTE is connected to carrier, then with out disconnecting from carrier, can we get GPS information, if so how?  any examples.

we are already running late to finalize the module.need help from Nordic officials.Thank you

with regards

Dr.N.Chandra sekhar, Phd

[Carl Richard]

Hey, Chandra!

I'm no Nordic employee, but I can try to answer some of your questions.

1. I have no experience with this, but Nordic does have a guideline for the antenna interface here: https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/pdf/nwp_033.pdf. Look at page 8 for recommended antennas.

2. Again, not sure, but looking at this I belive you can achieve quite small PCBs.

3. I would actually recommend the opposite. From my experience this will make the cellular operations easier, and the nRF9160 MCU has good BLE support. We did a project last year using GPS, BLE and MQTT on the nRF9160 :) Take a look here: https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/nordic/nordic-blog/b/blog/posts/nrf9160-pathfinder

4. See the point above. I don't know anything about the MQTT support on the BLE MCU, but I guess it will be easier on the nRF9160 MCU.

5. There are no embedded sim included. The DKs are sold with a SIM-card and the module has support for eSIMs aswell, but as an additional component on the PCB.

6. This is possible! By using PSM it should be no problem to achieve this. We did it in the project referenced in point 3. I recommend taking a look at that!

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Carl Richard 

[Chandra2sekhar]

hi

yesterday , i received a mail, that a nordic engineer has been assgined.no reply or message from any one.

thank you

[Heidi]

Hi! Carl Richard is actually a previous and coming Nordic employee so please consider his response as well. 

1. what is the best suitable antenna for NRF9160 for both LTE & GPS, we don't  have hardcore RF expertise, so we need help on this , we have some flex antennas 

  a.https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/antennas/2072350100

 b.https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/antennas/2065600100

 can above antennas be used by just connecting via UFL connector with out any matching components etc , or any smaller chip antenna available

The first antenna you linked (2072350100) does not cover the correct frequency for GPS as we use 1257 MHz, so the other one is the most suitable. And yes, they can be used by just connecting via the UFL connector.

 

2.what is the smallest size PCB we can have when NRF9160 with including antennas . remaining BLE & power circuits we can manage

This depends on the antenna you're using, and how good performance you want. The antenna requires a minimum size on a ground plane, and the larger the ground plane, the better performance - generally speaking. 

3. we are not interested in 2 firmware for 9160 separately and ble separately. so we are planning to choose BLE processor as main MCU , and NRF9160 will be used with out any custom firmware, so AT command based. so any suggestions on this

I agree with Carl Richard - the nRF9160 should be used as the main MCU. If you take a look at the hardware for our nRF9160 module, the nRF9160 development kit, the nRF9160 is used as the main MCU while the nRF52840 (our BLE chip) is running the HCI UART FW, to expose the Zephyr BLE controller over UART.

4.  our goal will be to extract the GPS from 9160 to BLE main mcu, and then send it via MQTT. does NRF9160 supports MQTT, any code examples via AT. with out implementing MQTT protocol on BLE main mCU, does NRF9160 supports any quick command. as of now, only publishing, in future might need subscribe also.

Yes, nRF9160 supports MQTT. We have this Simple MQTT sample, available in NCS, which connects the nRF9160 to an MQTT broker.

We also have the Serial LTE Modem sample, which has support for MQTT Client proprietary AT commands, so a step simpler than the simple MQTT sample. The serial LTE modem sample is a demonstration on how to send AT commands between a host (nRF9160) and a client device, which sounds relevant to your application description.

5. Does NRF9160 modules selling in online have embedded sim enabled, if so how to activate it with carrier.

The nRF9160 DK and Thingy:91, which are the nRF9160 modules sold by Nordic, do not have support for an embedded SIM. As for other modules sold, you would have to ask the producer. I found this module for instance which has support for eSim installation at production time. 

6. lets say, if LTE is connected to carrier, then with out disconnecting from carrier, can we get GPS information, if so how?  any examples.

Yes, this is possible and the nRF9160 Pathfinder project that Carl Richard and a few other summer students worked on last summer demonstrates this. By putting the modem in power saving mode, you can operate the GPS and don't have to completely deactivate the modem.

[Chandra2sekhar]

HELLO heidi.

thanks for reply, i do consider MR.carls inputs. thanks for both. i am starting with antenova gps active antenna for GPS, and molex felxstrip for LTE,

this is the first time i am handling nrf9160,and we are already running late, so i need some support privately and guide me in every aspect, so we can take this to production in less than 3 months.as we already got screwed bcz of corona.

with respect to BLE , we are planning to use other vendor module with AT commands , will it be easier to do all BLE stuff from the nrf9160 via uart, or do you recommend to use nordic module only. ?

we are planning to use Esim. but we dont know how to proceed. dont know where to start, Does netwrok operators provide esim? or do we need to use any balnk esim modules and then load with imei or how,this works can you guide me on this?

i had tried installing NCS and followed step by step getting started guide, but still unable to get a clear idea about , how to create a empty project, or any empty or template project to start with. like in BLE empty

Thank you

[Heidi]

Hi!

The reason I suggest using nRF9160 as the main MCU and handle BLE over UART is that there are a lot of sample projects in NCS for exactly this setup. 

With regard to eSim, I suggest asking your network provider about how this is provided. I will try to find someone tomorrow who has knowledge about how eSIM's work, as today is a Norwegian holiday. Since the Nordic modules (DK and Thingy) don't support this I don't have much experience with it. 

For a blank NCS project, you need the following file structure

-src
    -main.c
-prj.conf
-CMakeLists.txt

where prj.conf is for all your configurations, and CMakeLists.txt looks something like this

cmake_minimum_required(VERSION 3.8.2)

include($ENV{ZEPHYR_BASE}/../nrf/cmake/boilerplate.cmake)
include($ENV{ZEPHYR_BASE}/cmake/app/boilerplate.cmake NO_POLICY_SCOPE)
project(NONE)

# NORDIC SDK APP START
target_sources(app PRIVATE src/main.c)
# NORDIC SDK APP END

If you go to ncs/nrf/samples/nrf9160 you'll find a lot of sample applications. We usually recommend newcomers start by editing an application that resembles theirs, instead of creating a blank project. This git-repo, from a colleague, also has a few basic samples, such as UART and SPI to show how to set up these things.

As for your request to guide you in every aspect, the way we handle technical support on DevZone is generally to make a new ticket if your follow-up questions are not related to the original ticket. This is first and foremost so that other users can easily find tickets similar to their own and to make the website searchable. And secondly, to make sure your questions end up with the Nordic engineer who has experience with what you're asking about.

Lastly, so you're aware, we do offer hardware review of your design and antenna tuning for free, when you have gotten that far in your development process. :) 

Best regards,

Heidi