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Thingy91 is useless without working samples and SDK

Georgi Valkov

Thingy91 is useless without working samples and SDK

Out of the box it cannot associate with any NB-IoT cells here in Bulgaria. I tied using the provided SIM card from iBasis, I tried using an EMnify card and I tried using a prepaid card from a local carrier that is known to support NB-IoT. I also tried switching to NB-IoT as described here:
developer.nordicsemi.com/.../ug_nrf9160.html

The LTE Link Monitor is completely useless since it doesn't provide any human readable status and interface. I assume that people who wish to learn how to use this tool are not AT command experts. The default example that comes preinstalled on the board keeps crashing and restarting every few minutes. Have you considered postponing the release of products and SDK until they become somewhat usable?

Next the SDK that is installed by default v1.2.0 lacks the board directories to support Thingy91.
Trying v1.3.0-rc1 now I struggle with SEGGER Embedded Studio. It keeps asking me for a license every time I start it, even though I have both jLink and jTrace attached, and I also activated the nordic license more than 20 times. At this point I wish to throw that software in the bin and use a better alternative. According to the First build steps, I tried opening a project, but it spits tons of errors on both macOS Catalina and Windows 10. For example:
The project file '/opt/nordic/ncs/v1.3.0-rc1/zephyr/samples/basic/blinky/build_thingy91_nrf9160ns/blinky.emProject' is invalid. The reported error is 'solution load command failed (1)'

git-cmd.cmd on Windows is also bad. Line 3 should include /d, because otherwise we end up in the temp directory where it cannot find .west\config:

CD /d "%ZEPHYR_BASE%\.."

I'm very disappointed from the first experience I'm getting from Nordic Semiconductors.

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  • 0

    Hello ,

     I'm very sorry to hear about your first-time experience with us, but I hope that we can change this. Please have a look at our nRF9160 documentation, the Thingy:91 documentation, and the NCS documentation (as you have found).

    Out of the box it cannot associate with any NB-IoT cells here in Bulgaria. I tied using the provided SIM card from iBasis, I tried using an EMnify card and I tried using a prepaid card from a local carrier that is known to support NB-IoT. I also tried switching to NB-IoT as described here:
    developer.nordicsemi.com/.../ug_nrf9160.html

     Did you follow the steps for unboxing given at www.nordicsemi.com/thingy91? Have you updated your device? What pre-compiled image did you program? Remember to follow the steps given here to update

     

    The LTE Link Monitor is completely useless since it doesn't provide any human readable status and interface. I assume that people who wish to learn how to use this tool are not AT command experts. The default example that comes preinstalled on the board keeps crashing and restarting every few minutes. Have you considered postponing the release of products and SDK until they become somewhat usable?

     Can you please explain what you mean with human-readable status and interface? Please provide the output log from the LTE Link Monitor. The AT commands are used to communicate with the modem in the nRF9160 and follow standard 3GPP. You can find more information about the AT commands here.

    Again, the "crashing and restarting every few minutes" can be due to the old application and it would be good to have information from the LTE Link Monitor to see where it is failing. 

     

    Next the SDK that is installed by default v1.2.0 lacks the board directories to support Thingy91.

     Please make sure to follow documentation for the correct NCS tag, in this case, NCS v1.2.0. The Thingy:91 board is found under nrf\boards\arm\nrf9160_pca20035, while in NCS v1.3.0 (release candidate) and master branch it is nrf\boards\arm\thingy91_nrf9160. We have updated the naming convention to be more understandable

     

    Trying v1.3.0-rc1 now I struggle with SEGGER Embedded Studio. It keeps asking me for a license every time I start it, even though I have both jLink and jTrace attached, and I also activated the nordic license more than 20 times. At this point I wish to throw that software in the bin and use a better alternative. According to the First build steps, I tried opening a project, but it spits tons of errors on both macOS Catalina and Windows 10. For example:
    The project file '/opt/nordic/ncs/v1.3.0-rc1/zephyr/samples/basic/blinky/build_thingy91_nrf9160ns/blinky.emProject' is invalid. The reported error is 'solution load command failed (1)'

     The v1.3.0-rc1 is not a fully released version and may be prone to bugs, I would recommend using NCS v1.2.0 until the official v1.3.0 is released.

    Kind regards,
    Øyvind

    [/quote]
  • 0 in reply to Øyvind

    Thank you for the detailed links, Øyvind!

    I got some internal information regarding NB-IoT in Bulgaria. There is only one carrier that supports it: A1, and there should be coverage in all major cities. So in theory I should be able to connect. Since roaming is not yet supported for NB-IoT, I have to use a SIM card from that carrier, which I do, however the SIM card has to be specifically enabled for usage with NB-IoT, which regular SIM cards are not. When Thingy is unable to associate, the LTE Link Monitor should show information if there are available networks. That is we need to now if we cannot associate because there are no networks, or because the SIM card is rejected. A human readable form means to make the status obvious for a beginner, who has not yet learned the deep technical details of the AT commands. For a beginner, when too many things are broken, it is hard to impossible to figure out what should be done to achieve a working environment and if it is possible in first place.

    Originally the board came with v1.1.1. I installed the latest modem firmware: mfwnrf9160120.zip using the Programmer tool and SEGGER jTrace. I have not programmed anything else. The Thinkgy91 I have is brand new and arrived this Monday. I would expect it to arrive with working software, but it keeps restarting every few minutes. To update the application I need a working SDK for macOS. The only available is v1.3.0-rc1, where I'm getting the above errors when opening projects. It wold be nice if your team makes some basic validation before releasing SDKs. While I can accept minor bugs in a release candidate, I do not agree that not being able to open projects is acceptable.

    Here is the console output copied from LTE Link Manager: https://pastebin.com/rgVUCm3a

    I would expect to see a list of networks or a message: No networks available, or Cannot connect to network, because… Something a human can understand. A bunch of numbers and cryptic letters takes quite a long time to decipher by someone who just started working with the device. And I understand that the modem firmware needs to be as simple as possible, but the GUI should be able to provide more useful information.

  • 0 in reply to Georgi Valkov

    Hi Georgi,

    I have taken over this case from Øyvind, as I work closely with the getting started experience on the Thingy:91. The getting started steps that can be found on the url on the Thingy:91 box should explain things quite clearly.

    The easiest thing to do is to download the pre-programmed hex files from the downloads tab (v1.2.0 of nRF Connect SDK). Then you can use the Link Monitor app with a USB cable connected to the Thingy:91 to update both the nRF9160 app and modem FW. The modem FW should have a name similar to this: mfwnrf9160120.zip. Do not unzip the file!

    The Infocenter documentation that Øyvind points to explains the steps. See these two links for more info (llink 1, link 2).

    No need to download the nRF Connect SDK yet! Once you have updated both app and modem FW, test it out and let me know how it went. Please attach any link monitor logs if you are unable to connect. If anything is unclear, please let me know! :)

    Once you have successfully connected, then I would suggest you to download the nRF Connect SDK either via the Getting Started Assistant or via the Toolchain Manager (should be out soon for MacOS if it is not already out yet...)

    Update: If you update the modem, you must also update the application on the nRF9160 SiP.

  • 0 in reply to Bjørn Kvaale

    Hi Bjørn!

    The Nordic Programmer detected I have SEGGER jTrace connected to the board, and used it to update all firmwares: modem, nrf9160, and nrf52840. This is easier than going through DFU. But the application installed on nrf9160 keeps crashing every few minutes and is still unable to connect to NB-IoT or at least provide me with any information on why is it failing: is it because it cannot find any networks, or because it does not like the SIM card. Since I am unable to develop applications utilising the LTE modem at this time, I tried to work on the BLE, but stumbled upon more issues:

    1. With the SWD select switch in nrf52 position, as soon as I program any application, the two COM ports disappear from my computer, so I am unable to see any debug messages from the nrf52840 chip that I'm trying to program and debug.
    2. Speaking of debug, I am also unable to debug, because SEGGER Embedded Studios says that there are no debugging symbols. I searched for the specific error and found an article in this forum explaining that I need to compile a debug variant of the application, however following the provided screenshots, my screen looks differently and I cannot find any options to build the application with debugging symbols.

    Due to 1 and 2, I am completely unable to develop any software for the nrf52840 chip. According to the documentation, Thingy91 has a BLE chip, but in practice this is an UART over USB bridge, and once I reprogram it, it's just as good as a brick. Am I missing anything?

     

    Let me also remind you that on macOS, SEGGER Embedded Studio is unable to open any applications. Not even the basic Blinky example. Another screenshot is attached to my first message.

  • 0 in reply to Georgi Valkov

    Hi Georgi,

    Regarding cellular connection:

    I was connected to your computer via TeamViewer and it definitely showed that there is no NB-IOT network it could connect to while there was communication with SIM card active. Please check how the SIM cards work to understand the process of connecting to the network and why it’s communicated this way in LTE Link Monitor:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_card

    https://www.gsma.com/iot/embedded-sim/how-it-works/

     The application does not crash, it changes the system mode from LTE-M to NB-IOT and reboots to look for networks. But you need a proper SIM and network to connect. According to GSMA Deployment Map there is no such network in Bulgaria yet: https://www.gsma.com/iot/deployment-map/

  • 0 in reply to Georgi Valkov

    Regarding BT debugging

    Please let us know what's your hardware setup. Are you trying to use nRF9160-DK JLINK or other JLINK to program Thingy:91?

    Generally yes, nRF52840 is used as a board controller (please refer to Thingy:91 manual) and programmed with USB UART possibility. If you program there "any application" which does not provide this functionality you will not see the COM ports anymore. 

    Good start working with BLE on Thingy:91 is to use this example: https://developer.nordicsemi.com/nRF_Connect_SDK/doc/latest/nrf/applications/connectivity_bridge/README.html

    it's a part of Asset Tracker example file for Thingy:91 where you replace the USB Bridge with the Connectivity Bridge and then you can use Nordic UART Service :https://developer.nordicsemi.com/nRF_Connect_SDK/doc/latest/nrf/include/bluetooth/services/nus.html#nus-service-readme

Reply Children
  • 0 in reply to Maciej Michna

    Setup:

    • Segger jTrace connected via the 10 pin SWD to Thingy91.
    • Computer connected via USB to Thingy91.

    Since Thingy91 is advertised with a BLE chip, as a developer I expect to be able to program, debug and view debug messages. Even if we integrate an USB to UART bride in software, the UART messages will likely get interrupted as soon as a breakpoint is hit. This is a good example of a bad design. I will look into the example from you link. Thank you!

    How do I enable debug build with symbols in the SEGGER Embedded Studio projects?

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