Thingy91 is useless without working samples and SDK

[Georgi Valkov]

Thingy91 is useless without working samples and SDK

Out of the box it cannot associate with any NB-IoT cells here in Bulgaria. I tied using the provided SIM card from iBasis, I tried using an EMnify card and I tried using a prepaid card from a local carrier that is known to support NB-IoT. I also tried switching to NB-IoT as described here:
developer.nordicsemi.com/.../ug_nrf9160.html

The LTE Link Monitor is completely useless since it doesn't provide any human readable status and interface. I assume that people who wish to learn how to use this tool are not AT command experts. The default example that comes preinstalled on the board keeps crashing and restarting every few minutes. Have you considered postponing the release of products and SDK until they become somewhat usable?

Next the SDK that is installed by default v1.2.0 lacks the board directories to support Thingy91.
Trying v1.3.0-rc1 now I struggle with SEGGER Embedded Studio. It keeps asking me for a license every time I start it, even though I have both jLink and jTrace attached, and I also activated the nordic license more than 20 times. At this point I wish to throw that software in the bin and use a better alternative. According to the First build steps, I tried opening a project, but it spits tons of errors on both macOS Catalina and Windows 10. For example:
The project file '/opt/nordic/ncs/v1.3.0-rc1/zephyr/samples/basic/blinky/build_thingy91_nrf9160ns/blinky.emProject' is invalid. The reported error is 'solution load command failed (1)'

git-cmd.cmd on Windows is also bad. Line 3 should include /d, because otherwise we end up in the temp directory where it cannot find .west\config:

CD /d "%ZEPHYR_BASE%\.."

I'm very disappointed from the first experience I'm getting from Nordic Semiconductors.

[Øyvind]

Hello Georgi Valkov,

 I'm very sorry to hear about your first-time experience with us, but I hope that we can change this. Please have a look at our nRF9160 documentation, the Thingy:91 documentation, and the NCS documentation (as you have found).

Out of the box it cannot associate with any NB-IoT cells here in Bulgaria. I tied using the provided SIM card from iBasis, I tried using an EMnify card and I tried using a prepaid card from a local carrier that is known to support NB-IoT. I also tried switching to NB-IoT as described here:
developer.nordicsemi.com/.../ug_nrf9160.html

 Did you follow the steps for unboxing given at www.nordicsemi.com/thingy91? Have you updated your device? What pre-compiled image did you program? Remember to follow the steps given here to update

 

The LTE Link Monitor is completely useless since it doesn't provide any human readable status and interface. I assume that people who wish to learn how to use this tool are not AT command experts. The default example that comes preinstalled on the board keeps crashing and restarting every few minutes. Have you considered postponing the release of products and SDK until they become somewhat usable?

 Can you please explain what you mean with human-readable status and interface? Please provide the output log from the LTE Link Monitor. The AT commands are used to communicate with the modem in the nRF9160 and follow standard 3GPP. You can find more information about the AT commands here.

Again, the "crashing and restarting every few minutes" can be due to the old application and it would be good to have information from the LTE Link Monitor to see where it is failing. 

 

Next the SDK that is installed by default v1.2.0 lacks the board directories to support Thingy91.

 Please make sure to follow documentation for the correct NCS tag, in this case, NCS v1.2.0. The Thingy:91 board is found under nrf\boards\arm\nrf9160_pca20035, while in NCS v1.3.0 (release candidate) and master branch it is nrf\boards\arm\thingy91_nrf9160. We have updated the naming convention to be more understandable

 

Trying v1.3.0-rc1 now I struggle with SEGGER Embedded Studio. It keeps asking me for a license every time I start it, even though I have both jLink and jTrace attached, and I also activated the nordic license more than 20 times. At this point I wish to throw that software in the bin and use a better alternative. According to the First build steps, I tried opening a project, but it spits tons of errors on both macOS Catalina and Windows 10. For example:
The project file '/opt/nordic/ncs/v1.3.0-rc1/zephyr/samples/basic/blinky/build_thingy91_nrf9160ns/blinky.emProject' is invalid. The reported error is 'solution load command failed (1)'

 The v1.3.0-rc1 is not a fully released version and may be prone to bugs, I would recommend using NCS v1.2.0 until the official v1.3.0 is released.

Kind regards,
Øyvind

[/quote]

[Georgi Valkov]

Thank you for the detailed links, Øyvind!

I got some internal information regarding NB-IoT in Bulgaria. There is only one carrier that supports it: A1, and there should be coverage in all major cities. So in theory I should be able to connect. Since roaming is not yet supported for NB-IoT, I have to use a SIM card from that carrier, which I do, however the SIM card has to be specifically enabled for usage with NB-IoT, which regular SIM cards are not. When Thingy is unable to associate, the LTE Link Monitor should show information if there are available networks. That is we need to now if we cannot associate because there are no networks, or because the SIM card is rejected. A human readable form means to make the status obvious for a beginner, who has not yet learned the deep technical details of the AT commands. For a beginner, when too many things are broken, it is hard to impossible to figure out what should be done to achieve a working environment and if it is possible in first place.

Originally the board came with v1.1.1. I installed the latest modem firmware: mfwnrf9160120.zip using the Programmer tool and SEGGER jTrace. I have not programmed anything else. The Thinkgy91 I have is brand new and arrived this Monday. I would expect it to arrive with working software, but it keeps restarting every few minutes. To update the application I need a working SDK for macOS. The only available is v1.3.0-rc1, where I'm getting the above errors when opening projects. It wold be nice if your team makes some basic validation before releasing SDKs. While I can accept minor bugs in a release candidate, I do not agree that not being able to open projects is acceptable.

Here is the console output copied from LTE Link Manager: https://pastebin.com/rgVUCm3a

I would expect to see a list of networks or a message: No networks available, or Cannot connect to network, because… Something a human can understand. A bunch of numbers and cryptic letters takes quite a long time to decipher by someone who just started working with the device. And I understand that the modem firmware needs to be as simple as possible, but the GUI should be able to provide more useful information.

[Maciej Michna]

Hi Georgi,

Regarding cellular connection:

I was connected to your computer via TeamViewer and it definitely showed that there is no NB-IOT network it could connect to while there was communication with SIM card active. Please check how the SIM cards work to understand the process of connecting to the network and why it’s communicated this way in LTE Link Monitor:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_card

https://www.gsma.com/iot/embedded-sim/how-it-works/

 The application does not crash, it changes the system mode from LTE-M to NB-IOT and reboots to look for networks. But you need a proper SIM and network to connect. According to GSMA Deployment Map there is no such network in Bulgaria yet: https://www.gsma.com/iot/deployment-map/

[Maciej Michna]

Regarding BT debugging

Please let us know what's your hardware setup. Are you trying to use nRF9160-DK JLINK or other JLINK to program Thingy:91?

Generally yes, nRF52840 is used as a board controller (please refer to Thingy:91 manual) and programmed with USB UART possibility. If you program there "any application" which does not provide this functionality you will not see the COM ports anymore. 

Good start working with BLE on Thingy:91 is to use this example: https://developer.nordicsemi.com/nRF_Connect_SDK/doc/latest/nrf/applications/connectivity_bridge/README.html

it's a part of Asset Tracker example file for Thingy:91 where you replace the USB Bridge with the Connectivity Bridge and then you can use Nordic UART Service :https://developer.nordicsemi.com/nRF_Connect_SDK/doc/latest/nrf/include/bluetooth/services/nus.html#nus-service-readme

[Maciej Michna]

As for macOS and SEGGER Embedded Studio

we need to wait for a tip from the support team (Bjørn Kvaale ?) as I'm not experienced with MacOS. 

[Georgi Valkov]

Setup:

• Segger jTrace connected via the 10 pin SWD to Thingy91.
• Computer connected via USB to Thingy91.

Since Thingy91 is advertised with a BLE chip, as a developer I expect to be able to program, debug and view debug messages. Even if we integrate an USB to UART bride in software, the UART messages will likely get interrupted as soon as a breakpoint is hit. This is a good example of a bad design. I will look into the example from you link. Thank you!

How do I enable debug build with symbols in the SEGGER Embedded Studio projects?

[Bjørn Kvaale]

Hi Georgi, sorry for the delayed response. Have been testing our modem FW all of last week. Just finished testing on a mac book pro. Had some issues that west was not updated successfully and needed to change environment variables so that python and pip point to python 3 and not python 2.

These are the steps I took:

Ran the toolchain manager first.

Went through this blog post to set python via pyenv.

Updated NCS to point to rc3 candidate and not rc1. change directory to nrf and then run:

git checkout v1.3.0-rc3
west update

If you cannot run the west command because it was not installed automatically by the toolchain manager, run

pip3 install west

You can use the pip command too if that points to python 3.

I then get a very similar error to what you are seeing.

I have opened an internal ticket and will get back to you once I know more.

Remember, this is still experimental, so that might explain the issues so far...

[Georgi Valkov]

Hi Bjørn!

Following the advice from Maciej Michna, I installed thingy91_nrf52_connectivity_bridge_2020-04-29_bc7ade8b.hex

I noticed the following problems that need to be addressed by your team:

• While the first COM port still receives boot and modem messages, I can no longer send AT commands.
• As soon as I open the second COM port, the nrf52840 chip reboots and the two COM ports disappear for a few seconds. Then the COM port gets reopened automatically by KiTTY and the chip keeps rebooting repeatedly. This indicates a serious bug.
• Next with both COM ports closed, I edited Config.txt from the ZEPHYR USB drive and set BLE_ENABLED=1. Then I developed an iPhone application that discovers and connects to Thingy over BLE. I observed that the BLE channel links directly to the modem, exactly the same way as the USB-UART bridge did over the first COM port. So I learned the AT commands and implemented my own and much more advanced version of the LTE Link Monitor for iPhone. It is able to query modem statistics, display them and provide an interface for changing modem configuration. I also added a console for manual AT commands. Everything works fine as long as the modem has no connectivity.
• Meanwhile I received an NB-IoT SIM card from the local carrier (A1) and this morning they enabled support in the nearby cells. But as soon as the modem gets connected, it stops replaying to AT commands and reboots periodically. The LED blinks red now, unfortunately I am unable to run any AT commands to query the status.
• In the log from the link below, you can see that initially I am able to run some commands and receive replays, but as soon as the modem gets connected, it stops replaying to AT commands:
• https://pastebin.com/wUPTNrp6

[Georgi Valkov]